Magna Lobby drove me Offshore

[Jeff P]

Today I opened an account at Pinnacle and joined the ranks of players betting through an offshore rebate shop. I did this with more than a little regret. Sadly, I know that money I bet offshore may never make its way back into the parimutuel pools. But this is just something I finally had to do. For anyone interested I'll rant out my reasons for joining the beast rather than fighting it below.

I recently relocated to San Diego from Phoenix. Since the first of the year I've been driving to the Del Mar Race Place/satellite otb each day to play horses. First, let me say that Del Mar is truly a first class facility. The people who work there are really very nice and will go out of their way to answer questions or help you out in any way if they can. I'm talking about everybody- from the security guard at the gate to the mutuel clerks to the gal at the refreshment stand. All are truly first class in every way. That said, I still find it nearly impossible to play horses there.

No, It's not the $7.00 per car they charge for parking on weekends or the the movie theater like food and beverage prices. I can live with that.

My problem is the very limited choices of tracks and races that they carry. Basically, they carry Southern California, Northern California, and up to 23 SELECTED RACES (mostly Magna) from other tracks around the country. Recently this has typically been GP races 3-9, AQU races 6-9, LRL races 7-9, FG races 7-9, and OP races 7-9. No other tracks or races. Period.

I've had several conversations with one of the mutuel managers there. My questions to him always revolve around one topic: Why not shut me up and offer full card simulcasting? His answers to me have been most revealing about Magna Entertainment.

Interestingly enough, Del Mar (not owned by Magna) spent their own money to build individual betting stations with UBet tie ins. He even showed them to me. Their intention was to allow patrons with UBet accounts to view and bet races from other tracks around the country while sitting in the theater area at Del Mar. He went on to explain to me that Magna vehemently objected to this. They went so far as to hire lobbyists and swayed the state legislature here enough to actually get a law passed limiting California tracks and otbs to carrying no more than 23 out of state races on any given race day. Wow.

Magna's goal here seems to be one of trying to create a partial monopoly. They do this by limiting California players to playing primarily Magna tracks. They decide what's available and what isn't. When I lived in Arizona, I could go to Turf Paradise (free admission/free parking by the way) and bet any race on the card from any of 10-15 tracks running that day.)

Last week I missed out on three longshot winners. (Ella Bella $44.40 AQU race 2 on Wed 2-4, Prince Ante $63.00 FG race 3 on Sun 02-8-04, and Fasole $26.20 FG race 4, also on Sun 2-8-04) I'm not trying to redboard here. Just blowing off a little steam. These were horses that I really wanted to play. Unfortunately, they ran in races not included in the out of state races carried at Del Mar on those days. Not having an account anywhere, I couldn't get a bet down.

I am strictly a value player. I look for two to three overlays on a given card and bet primarily to win only. Missing out on these three plays managed to turn an otherwise pretty good week into a losing one. So long as I continue to reside in California, and it looks like I will be here for the forseeable future, this is something that very obviously would happen again and again going forward.

It is also something that I just refuse to accept.

I started out looking for a single account wagering service where my money ends up in the parimutuel pools. (I believe in helping the horsemen and the racing industry as much as possible.) But as a California resident, due to the influence of Magna and their lobbyists, even my choices in the area of account wagering services are limited. First, there's UBet. But, in California, they can't offer Gulfstream, Fairgrounds, or Laurel. Thanks Magna. Then there's XPressBet. They're owned by Magna. But there are track restrictions there as well for California residents. Bottom line- everything Magna has done in the way of influencing the state legislature here is an attempt to force guys like me to go to the track or otb and only bet on races at Magna owned tracks.

And that pisses me off.

So much so that I started considering offshore rebate shops. I looked at EHorse and Pinnacle. There's been a lot of discussion on this board recently about these two outfits. For me it was a no brainer. Pinnacle's 7% rebate was the deciding factor.

So as of today I'm betting offshore through Pinnacle. Yes, their betting interface seems a little archaic (Fred Flintstone archaic - I really liked that one. Thanks, Suff.) But at least I'm no longer limited by Magna executives as to what races I can bet on. And that 7% rebate on all wagers could really add up over time.

Need I say more?

[Tom]

NTRA...where are you?
Obviously, the pari mutual pools that are driving you offshore do not deserve your money. They are killing themselves and they deserve it. Don't feel guilty-YOU did't start this. THEY did.

[GameTheory]

Didn't we decide that Pinnacle money DOES end up in the pools, albeit a smaller percentage of it (than if at the track)?

[Gold Bay]

Great post Jeff

[MikeH]

I'm boycotting Magna, but whoever you are talking to at the Del Mar OTB is feeding you a bunch of lies.

The limit of 23 races on out-of-state races was passed by the California legislature some time ago; definitely before Magna even purchased its first racetrack and before Churchill bought Hollywood Park. Magna could not have had anything to do with it. Prior to that, all we could see from out of state were stakes races, although through some quirk in the law, we could import as many races as we wished from outside the U.S.

Incidentally, stick around the Del Mar OTB and you will soon find out that they aren't really very nice. I've had several confrontations with them about customer service, and haven't been there in several years. In fact, I won't go there again.

[breakage]

As someone who has dealt with E-horse and Pinnacle I can say that putting money into accounts at both is about ten times easier than getting money out.

Their customer service ( especially Pinnacle) as far as trying to extract money from them is very poor. After you jump through various hoops, sometimes repeatedly, while dealing with someone speaking broken English, your money is forwarded. I read a post several weeks ago where somebody stated that money was deposited into their bank account almost immediately. DREAM ON...it takes 3-5 days minimum to have money deposited into your account via wire transfer.

BTW, their customer service (Pinnacle) can only be contacted via email.

[GameTheory]

Yeah, but the wire transfer delay is from the bank, not from Pinnacle. If they acted immediately, it would still take 3-5 days.

The customer service at eHorse has always been good to me, although I haven't used them in about a year. When I used them, you could get a withdrawal almost immediately. You probably still can, but there may be other delays depending on the withdrawal method you use...

[Hosshead]

There is no doubt that Pinnacle bets go into the track pools. I've corresponded with them about this matter and they "implied" that their software tracks players who win on a consistent basis, and because they have more "risk" with these players, their bets will most likely "find it's way" into the pools. However, if you are "tracked" as a loser, ......there's nothing to worry about. Your bets won't go into the pool !

[Cal-bred]

That is correct Mike. The 23-race rule has been in place since simulcasting was first offered in California as I recall.

[cato]

If people are paying attention, a wire transfer can happen in an matter of hours. From an offshore, reputbale bank, you might have to add a day to that process

Cato

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by Hosshead
There is no doubt that Pinnacle bets go into the track pools. I've corresponded with them about this matter and they "implied" that their software tracks players who win on a consistent basis, and because they have more "risk" with these players, their bets will most likely "find it's way" into the pools. However, if you are "tracked" as a loser, ......there's nothing to worry about. Your bets won't go into the pool !

This sort of selective screening of customers is the main thing I find scary about offshore books because it ONLY makes the pools more efficient, unless of course they aren't very good at predicting who is going to remain a winner.

[Jeff P]

Okay. Let me be the first to admit it. I am wrong. Apparently, the 23 race rule in California has been around for quite some time.

But, as to my other points- Del Mar did spring for individual betting stations with UBet interfaces. You can see them- they are right there in the last row of the theater section. And of course, the betting interfaces have been disabled. Ask the guys who work there next to the computers in the booth. They will tell you that Magna had everything to do with having them not be active.

I'll also stand by everything I said about the courtesy and professionalism of the Del Mar employees. They have simply been top notch in every area in the five weeks that I have been going there.

And the fact that there even is a 23 race rule really pisses me off. As a horseplayer, if I really like something in the third at Fairgrounds then I want to bet it. I don't want somebody else telling me that I can't bet that race because they're only carrying races 7-9 that day.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Jeff P
And the fact that there even is a 23 race rule really pisses me off. As a horseplayer, if I really like something in the third at Fairgrounds then I want to bet it. I don't want somebody else telling me that I can't bet that race because they're only carrying races 7-9 that day.

WELCOME TO CALIFORNIA!! THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STATE IN THE NATION AND THE MOST SCREWED UP!

Soon you will find that the State of California knows how to live your life much better than you. From the State parks with "No smoking" signs in the middle of the woods to the 10 dollar a car entry fee at the state parks. A funny thing happens at some of the state parks too......you pay and roll in and find that half the park is shut down with a snow fence. They have discovered some wild exotic toad needs to be protected and you just paid full price for half a park. The park is usually in such disrepair that you wouldn't want your kids to touch anything. Oh yeah....I forgot to tell you.......those people who are in the state parks everyday.......live there. The homeless get hassled out of some portions of town and are allowed to setup camp in the park. So if you pull out your lunch and sit down at a picnic table overlooking the Beautiful Los Angeles National forest or Santa Monica mountains, you might get mugged. Enjoy the view .......

Oh, don't forget you can only play 23 races and the government decides which ones.........

[DealMe3]

I can feel your pain. I play at a Churchill Downs facility called Arlington Trackside, and at the actual track during the season. I'm not limited by the tracks that I can bet, but the people at these facilities are the opposite at Del Mar. The ticket clerks are rude and close their windows at a moments notice. And if you place a bet through the automatic betting machines, the clerks will often short change you on the winning tickets. The manager at that place is of no help, and the food prices are way out there.

Last season, when Arlington Park opened it made some changes. They no longer open their gates early so the simulcast players can get their seats and prepare to make wagers. The gates open at 11:00 am and it's always a mad rush to pay to get into the park, and go stand in another line so that you can pay to get a seat in the simulcast facility.

I've been seriously considering just staying home and making my wagers online. TVG is available in my area. I'm just worried about collecting a check from the online account. Have you had any problems getting your checks?

[Jeff P]

DealMe3-

Started playing at Pinnacle only yesterday. So I haven't crossed the bridge yet of trying to get money out. But, I have found that playing online and at home does have its perks.

Mainly I'm able to get bets down on the ones that I want to- and then go do something else. Yesterday afternoon, for example, I went down to the water with some friends and we threw a frisbee around. After getting back home, I went online, checked the results, and found out that I'd had a pretty profitable afternoon. Add the rebates back on top of that and it gets even better. Instead of paying for gas, admission, and food- now they are paying me to play. Sweet.

Of course my friends were curious and found out what I'd won. Naturally, last night, beers were on me. There's a real lesson to be learned there. Bet em hard. Win. But, above all else- keep quiet as a mouse about it.