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View Full Version : The autopsy of a bad race


jeebus1083
03-22-2013, 01:07 PM
One should look no further than Race 10 at Delta last night, a $10k maiden claiming slobberknocker. And yes, this was one helluva slobberknocker, leg #2 of what would turn out to be the end of my Pick 4 wager. My thought process handicapping this race was that the majority of the field was terrible, a pretty standard assessment for most cheap maiden claiming races. Here, I tend to back horses that are relatively lightly raced, any new faces to the bunch and sometimes if the conditions permit, a first time starter who has yet to do wrong in their career. In short, I will generally let the 0-for-14, 0-for-18 and 0-for-22 types beat me, as those types offer little to no present and future promise or value.


There was no one horse to stand out here from the rest, which made a five-horse spread a sensible compromise. For the record, the spread went 4-5-7-8-9. #9 Mission of Mine was making career start #4, but had a ton of early speed, albeit those races were from the rail. The 9 hole at DeD going 6 1/2 is always tough to overcome, but figured that if this one showed up, the post wouldn't matter, and Mission of Mine would clear. This was my first mistake. More on that later.


As for the others, #4 Spanish Blade was a first-time starter from a poor percentage barn at 20-1 ML. I probably wasted a slot in the Pick 4 by using this one, but the field as bad as it was, I felt that I had to reach. #5 Easytoauthenticate was 0-for-7, yet lightly raced. Since the December layoff, the horse began showing signs that perhaps he was finally understanding what the game was about, showing decent speed first off the bench and following that up with 2nd and 3rd finishes. #7 Simply Heath was 0-for-8 with several gaps, but nearly won last out on the lead going 2nd off the layoff. Some of those EvD efforts from August '12 seemed excusable (bad class, off track, etc). #8 High Bag Cascade was 0-for-3, 3rd off layoff and made up ground going shorter. He didn't look like a total lost cause.

Horses such as #1 Laurent de Var (0-for-18), #2 Royalee Bred (0-for-14, 1% trainer in 2012-13), #3 Art Shift (0-for-8, no form), and #6 Rebel Rocket (0-for-22) were easy auto-tosses, while #10 Text Me Collect, another horse with speed, was a short-price toss based on the fact that I didn't think he was going to clear from the 10 hole.

http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=DED&race=10&date=2013-03-21


Here's how the race went down:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/bulltp55/Frame1.jpg

Right at the break, Mission of Mine (#9) is in an unfamiliar spot: hung wide, and unable to clear, as the rest of the field is hellbent for leather. Having drawn the #1 post in his last three outs, his jockey was able to use that to his advantage, and subsequently displayed strong speed. Here, I expected the horse to do something he had never done before, and at short odds over this bullring, I probably should have discounted his chances.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/bulltp55/Frame2.jpg

Entering the turn, #10 Text Me Collect is full of momentum, yet bolts roughly 7-8 wide. The #9, unable to clear, is toward the rear of the field, unable to establish the needed early control. Then...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/bulltp55/Frame3.jpg

...#3 Art Shift drifts wide, carrying out, and subsequently knocking the #9 off-stride, effectively ending any and all chance this horse had. #10 is still widest of all, yet moving. With the favorite out of contention, and the 2nd choice losing that ground, the complexion of the race completely changed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/bulltp55/frame45.jpg

A three-way duel between #10 (still about 4 wide), #7 and #5 through 23.39 and 47.75 have set the table. The #2 Royalee Bred, having benefited from a decent post, was well behind early, but has moved up, and is sitting a perfect trip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/bulltp55/frame6.jpg

Coming off the turn, the speed is giving way, yet the #10 is still hanging in. #2 is coming 5 wide, but has something in the tank. The field is bunching up, something that characterizes bad fields running out of gas.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/bulltp55/frame7.jpg

The #2 swooped late to win at 32-1, and a cavalry bunched up, with 2nd through 7th covered by roughly 2 lengths. The #10, with that nightmarish widest of all speed trip, somehow hung on for the place, while #5 Easytoauthenticate, also on that pace, hung on for the show. 3/4 mile in 1:15.64 and a finish of 1:22.81 for 6 1/2 panels shows a race that completely collapsed, setting it up for the longshot. Basically, the race became sort of a "last horse standing" contest, and #2 was in the right place and race at the right time.

Lessons learned?

Handicap for "change". I expected the speed to run as is, without regard to the track. If I handicap for "change" it might have opened my eyes to others, or narrowed my picks further.

Short prices are dangerous to take in these cheap races.

It's also dangerous to take horses like an 0-for-14 seriously. Even through reviewing this race, I still could not make a solid case for him without the ALL button.

Such is the nature of cheap slobberknocker races. On many occasions, anything goes.

Thoughts?

cj
03-22-2013, 01:47 PM
I didn't handicap this race, and this is a little bit off topic, but I hate cheap maidens that have led and lost. The :9: had done it twice, blowing both two length and three length stretch call leads, so he would basically be an automatic toss for me for the rest of the time he is a maiden. It isn't that these kind don't win, but they are always way over bet.

That said, not sure I'd have ever come up with the :2:.

Tom
03-22-2013, 02:05 PM
Very nice analysis with "evidence." :ThmbUp:
You should be doing visual charts for the Form.

raybo
03-22-2013, 02:53 PM
Tim,

I played DeD last night and posted pre-race picks and followed up with the results after each race. This was all using the RS program, while testing my 2 newest ranking methods, Consensus and FWCalt2. I'm posting shots of that that thread in case you want to have a look. The bolded blue stuff, in the results is where either or both of the methods had the winner, 2nd, exacta, DD, pick 3,4, etc., the bolded red stuff are the picks that were in the money, with the larger numbers being winners. I literally killed it last night, including the 10th race. I won't offer ant analysis, other than to say that the winner was listed in almost every ranking method RS has.

I'll have to split the shots into 2 posts due to max number of attachments limits.

raybo
03-22-2013, 02:55 PM
Last of the shots from previous post:

cj
03-22-2013, 03:02 PM
I played DeD last night and posted pre-race picks and followed up with the results after each race.

Where? I'm not doubting you, just want to see them.

raybo
03-22-2013, 03:10 PM
You can see why DeD is my favorite track (actually DeD and EvD are my co-favorites). By the way, my wagering is multiple win bets, up to 3 picks per race. These 2 rankings methods do not have a minimum odds requirement yet so I played all picks up to 3, during this testing phase, in each of the 2 methods. The "Class" listings below the other 2 methods is something else I'm working on. And the "FWC" picks are listed because that is my primary, "real" money, ranking method. It doesn't produce many plays most cards so I'm trying to create other selection oprtions to allow more plays per card.

"Alt2" is an optional selections method that calls for selections, and wagers, from secondary rankings methods, depending on specific primary method "pass" notifications. "Consensus" is a consensus of 4 rankings methods.

Robert Fischer
03-22-2013, 03:11 PM
Thoughts?

Nice analysis with visuals.

I tend to pass cheap maiden claimers. Once in a while I'll see a play or a play against.

Before the race I honestly would not have played. After seeing the race (hindsight), it's real easy to make a case for the 10. Dropping to his level for one of the top barns in here, gets to be controlling speed, and the works up to this race reinforce intent. Blinkers on. 7-2 is an overlay. 8-5 - 9-5 range is about break even.

Maybe I missed something before the race, but I try to focus on my strengths and not be too fine with races like this unless I see one in my wheelhouse.

raybo
03-22-2013, 03:17 PM
Where? I'm not doubting you, just want to see them.

Don't understand the "where"? If you mean where were they posted, they were on my AllData forum, Selections" section. Just wanted to show that cheap claimer races are full of money to be made, and there are ways to get selections on horses that everyone else is ignoring. if these postings offended anyone Mike, or one of the moderators, can take them down. I will understand.

iceknight
03-22-2013, 04:12 PM
Don't understand the "where"? If you mean where were they posted, they were on my AllData forum, Selections" section. Looking at all the selections offered there, it seems like you select

3, 5, 2, 10, 9 and also the 7 from your Alt fviv (??)

Also by posting only 3,5 first and then changing colors to red etc I can't make head or tail unless I followed you live. So, yes money can be made but I am not sure how without going 5 wide. Also, at other times I have heard you mention that you exclusively play superfectas, so this thread discussion (on Alldata forum) of picking multiple winners seems to contradict. I would like to understand your wagering style better, if you are willing to discuss! I can visit Alldata for that discussion if needed. Will add my self there also soon, thanks!

Race 10 PASS - No Match !!
Consensus: 3 5 ( 3 5 2 ) Play
FWC Picks: 3 10 9 PASS !!
Alt. >> FVIV: 2 7 10
Class >> 10 3 9 8 6 1

raybo
03-22-2013, 04:24 PM
Looking at all the selections offered there, it seems like you select

3, 5, 2, 10, 9 and also the 7 from your Alt fviv (??)

Also by posting only 3,5 first and then changing colors to red etc I can't make head or tail unless I followed you live. So, yes money can be made but I am not sure how without going 5 wide. Also, at other times I have heard you mention that you exclusively play superfectas, so this thread discussion (on Alldata forum) of picking multiple winners seems to contradict. I would like to understand your wagering style better, if you are willing to discuss! I can visit Alldata for that discussion if needed. Will add my self there also soon, thanks!

Race 10 PASS - No Match !!
Consensus: 3 5 ( 3 5 2 ) Play
FWC Picks: 3 10 9 PASS !!
Alt. >> FVIV: 2 7 10
Class >> 10 3 9 8 6 1

I'm testing 2 new rankings methods, Consensus and Alt2 (which calls for selections and wagers from several secondary rankings methods, in this case from the FVIV method). So, if I were playing for real money, the Consensus method, and played all 3 top ranks I would have bet the 3,5, and 2.

If I were playing the Alt2 method, I would have been called to play the FVIV ranking method's top 3 ranks, which would have been the 2,7, and 10.

Further testing will tell me which of these 2 methods is best. We determine which method, at which track produces the best result from our "auto-record" track testing mode, testing all 10 available rankings methods. As we all know, each track plays differently, so we test each track to see which way it most often plays, then we use that method for our real wagers.

Yes, my personal wager type is superfectas, this "black box" was created to improve the number of winners I get, which has always been the limiting factor in my superfecta play. I ususally get 2nd, 3rd, and 4th finishers due to the coverage I get on my tickets. After creating this "win" program, I found that at tracks that have larger average win payouts, like DeD, EvD, OP, etc., I could actually produce consistent long term profits from win play. Since I'm not a win player, I decided to make it available to a limited number of players who are win/exacta/pick 3,4, and Daily Double players.

I do use this program in my superfecta play, using the best ranking method for the win line, and alternate rankings methods for the remainder of the ticket, as well as some "subjective" handicapping as well. The "Class" method is one of those "subjective" methods involved in my superfectas, especially the 2nd thru 4th lines.

cj
03-22-2013, 07:47 PM
Don't understand the "where"? If you mean where were they posted, they were on my AllData forum, Selections" section. Just wanted to show that cheap claimer races are full of money to be made, and there are ways to get selections on horses that everyone else is ignoring. if these postings offended anyone Mike, or one of the moderators, can take them down. I will understand.

That is what I meant by where, nothing more.

raybo
03-22-2013, 08:08 PM
That is what I meant by where, nothing more.

Ok, yeah, I'm currently posting real-time plays at DeD and sometimes other tracks, depending on what tracks are running at the time. I have 4 threads going now, 1 that is live and the other 3 just recaps of the program's picks and results, usually the next day or so. I do this mainly while testing new methods, or updating previous posts to bring the tracks results up to date. I find that doing this gives the other RS users a heads-up on tracks that are playing profitably, and also tracks that are not doing so well. Just part of the job, as a software provider.

dansan
03-22-2013, 08:43 PM
Does anyone have PP for the race they are discussing in thread

Robert Fischer
03-22-2013, 09:01 PM
Does anyone have PP for the race they are discussing in thread
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=DED&race=10&date=2013-03-21

Milkshaker
03-22-2013, 10:15 PM
Hey Jeebus:

I love cheapie racing at Delta.

I really didn't give a rat's ass about that particular race, but you are Da Man for taking the time to analyze and post that much info about a 10K maiden claimer.

Best thread I've read here all week.

raybo
03-22-2013, 11:17 PM
Helles,

Very nice! Love these cheap claiming races!

By the way, my Alt2 test method just hit the winner in Race 11 at DeD tonight, $64.20. I'm playing live on my site.

jeebus1083
03-22-2013, 11:22 PM
I didn't handicap this race, and this is a little bit off topic, but I hate cheap maidens that have led and lost. The :9: had done it twice, blowing both two length and three length stretch call leads, so he would basically be an automatic toss for me for the rest of the time he is a maiden. It isn't that these kind don't win, but they are always way over bet.

Excellent point, CJ. This horse has had its chances, and hasn't proven any fortitude when the going gets tough. Your point right there probably should have been enough to steer me clear of that horse, at least in straight wagers. As far as Pick-whatevers are concerned, there comes a decision of do I try and "play it safe" to get to the next leg? Or, do I play the race for what it is, and try and "separate" myself from the crowd? Here, I did a combination of both. Nothing wrong with that, except you make a ticket more expensive than it has to be if you have a marginal opinion about a horse. In most cheap maiden races, an opinion is going to be marginal given the "quality" of the horses, so the #9 was definitely a "mistake" and should have been treated like the #10.

jeebus1083
03-22-2013, 11:28 PM
I appreciate the positive feedback on this thread! I will try and do more post-race "autopsy" threads, and I'll mix it up a bit (races I've won, allowance, claimers, stakes, etc).

castaway01
03-23-2013, 07:54 AM
I appreciate the positive feedback on this thread! I will try and do more post-race "autopsy" threads, and I'll mix it up a bit (races I've won, allowance, claimers, stakes, etc).

Definitely a nice job on the race review. Thanks for taking the time.

JohnGalt1
03-23-2013, 08:31 AM
When I handicap a race I first list the horses in their running styles--E, EP, P, and S.

Except for maiden races. I write them down in post position order because maidens, since they have not won and whether special weight or claimers have not established a preferred running style I can be confident in labeling.

Also, trainers will have jockeys experiment with the horses. After a horse spits out the lead for a few races, the jockey will try rating the horse to see if that's the answer, and vice versa.

And of course for first timers it's strictly a guess as to running style.

overthehill
03-23-2013, 09:02 AM
thanks. This is redboarding clearly. and i also dont like playing horses who have had multiple tries to break their maiden and failed. however having said that and not knowing the specifics of the trainer and track , i would tell you that i could a reasons to make a win bet at a big price. first off all i have a basic mistrust for chalk in far outside positions. they tend to lose ground as they go wide so they have to really good to win. now to the #2 specifically. 4 races back the horse ran a very competitive race in open 10000 maidens which was probably good enough to beat this kind. in the next race it went off at 7/2 but was 5 wide so it had an excuse and then in its next two races it had the rail position. I dont know what the rail is like at DeD but in some tracks horse from the rail have no shot at all, some horses just dont run at all from the rail.


Today it had the 2 post broke well as i can see from your first photo, and no doubt worked out a perfect trip. I know that in new york there are some unheralded trainers that have more than once scored with maidens at huge prices. usually what happens is that the horse runs a good race which would indicate that the horse could win next out but the trainer then runs the horse a few more times in place where it cant win. bettors have short memories. when the trainer i am thinking of won his last race, he put on a female jockey no one had ever heard of in new york and the horse went off at 28-1, i think it won by 5 lengths or so. I used it is one of 4 horses in the late double and collected over $300 for a $2 wager when the second choice,( a horse andy picked BTW) won the feature. so my suggestion to you as a player is that that if you are going to cover the field go back a few races and see if the horse has ever run a race that would make it competitive in the field.

I think if you forced me to play that race I think 30-1 on the #2 was a pretty square price.

Robert Fischer
03-23-2013, 09:33 AM
By the way, my Alt2 test method just hit the winner in Race 11 at DeD tonight, $64.20. I'm playing live on my site.

how many methods are you running? :D

raybo
03-23-2013, 10:11 AM
Maybe this shot will put that race in a little better perspective. A race full of early types, leading to pace collapse, and a late winner. Of the "other than early" types, the 2 was pretty logical. Also, all running style methods aren't the same, as you can see comparing my running styles to Brisnet's.

raybo
03-23-2013, 10:16 AM
how many methods are you running? :D

Two, Consensus and FWCalt2.

Maximillion
03-25-2013, 07:17 PM
I appreciate the positive feedback on this thread! I will try and do more post-race "autopsy" threads, and I'll mix it up a bit (races I've won, allowance, claimers, stakes, etc).


I enjoyed reading it and look forward to more.....nicely done.:ThmbUp: