Exchange rules rejected by California Office of Administrative Law

[Al Gobbi]

The California Office of Administrative Law recently rejected rules permitting exchange wagering in the state, but has yet to give a reason for the rejection, a California Horse Racing Board spokesman said on Wednesday.

The racing board approved rules for exchange wagering in November 2012, and sent documents to the Office of Administrative Law earlier this year for legal review. That office rejected the rules earlier this month, but has yet to publish its findings. Companies such as TVG-Betfair have supported the implementation of exchange wagering.

http://www.drf.com/news/exchange-betting-rules-rejected-california-office-administrative-law

[Socalracefan]

Interesting. We will have to see how that develops. I hear about exchange wagering all the time here in Southern California on the Roger Stein show. He really seems to be the only one discussing it.

[horses4courses]

It's going to be a big setback for Betfair and, ultimately, TVG when exchange wagering finally goes six feet under in the US - and it will.

Those involved in UK gambling don't fully understand the US gaming environment, and vice versa.
Exchange wagering stands about the same chance as sports betting in this country - slim to none.

Why is that?
Because it's bookmaking.

Just because you dress a duck up differently, if you see it waddle, and you spot the webbed feet, you know it's still a duck. ;)

[usedtolovetvg]

You quack me up.

[Some_One]

Just another example of how close minded Americans are, say goodbye to TVG and Cali racing.

[Stillriledup]

Just another example of how close minded Americans are, say goodbye to TVG and Cali racing.

They're only closed minded because there's nothing in it for THEM. If they thought exchange wagering would create a situation where the horseman would stuff their pockets with newfound revenue, you can bet your bottom dollar there would be zero opposition to this.....bookmaking or not.

Also, an exchange wager is no different than betting on a 10 horse field....if you bet on one horse in a 10 horse field, you're essentially betting against the other 9 runners...no different than an exchange wager.

Del Mar didnt seem to have a problem offering win wagering on the Julie Krone/P Val match race a bunch of years ago and didnt have a problem 'booking' a two horse race with Mike and Chantal raced recently. Oh yeah, i forgot, normal 17 % takeout on that 'matchup', never mind, its ok to 'book' as long as the rake is what it normally is.

[Al Gobbi]

The launch of exchange wagering in California will be delayed for months, and possibly into 2014, after the state’s Office of Administrative Law recently cited extensive faults to a set of rules approved in 2012 by the California Horse Racing Board.

In a 19-page decision of disapproval published last Thursday, George C. Shaw, the Office of Administrative Law’s senior counsel, called for revisions to eight of the 25 rules. In a statement, the racing board said that the Office of Administrative Law cited “failure to comply with the specified standards of necessity, consistency, and clarity.”

http://www.drf.com/news/californias-plan-exchange-wagering-sustains-major-setback

[SandyW]

The launch of exchange wagering in California will be delayed for months, and possibly into 2014, after the state’s Office of Administrative Law recently cited extensive faults to a set of rules approved in 2012 by the California Horse Racing Board.

In a 19-page decision of disapproval published last Thursday, George C. Shaw, the Office of Administrative Law’s senior counsel, called for revisions to eight of the 25 rules. In a statement, the racing board said that the Office of Administrative Law cited “failure to comply with the specified standards of necessity, consistency, and clarity.”

http://www.drf.com/news/californias-plan-exchange-wagering-sustains-major-setback

According to California officials in the know, exchange wagering is as dead as kelsey's you know what for the near and for the foreseeable future.

[edmond1]

Betfair wake up !!!! Sell TVG so that you can then re-offer markets on California tracks.....Can't see it working out in U.S. anyway -10% commissions too high/ too many obstacles(state/country)..... HOW MUCH MORE MONEY CAN YOU AFFORD TO BLOW......

[classhandicapper]

It's sad, but US racing probably deserves to die the slow death it's going through now given the way it's run. This industry is a comedy of errors, stupidity, shortsightedness, corruption, incompetence etc... It's not even like there aren't workable models we can learn from overseas. Yet we learn nothing and continue to do everything wrong right in the face of basic business and economics. I almost wish I didn't have any family obligations. I'd probably pack my bags and play horses in Australia or somewhere else.

[Stillriledup]

It's sad, but US racing probably deserves to die the slow death it's going through now given the way it's run. This industry is a comedy of errors, stupidity, shortsightedness, corruption, incompetence etc... It's not even like there aren't workable models we can learn from overseas. Yet we learn nothing and continue to do everything wrong right in the face of basic business and economics. I almost wish I didn't have any family obligations. I'd probably pack my bags and play horses in Australia or somewhere else.

You hit the nail on the head here.

People who have pull in this game just won't ever listen to people who know more than they do about the sport. Players panel came out with a bunch of great suggestions about 10 years ago and we're still talking about basic stuff. Some tracks cant even figure out how to time their races properly.

[usedtolovetvg]

Nobody gives a s**t what the player wants. Like everyone else they are just protecting their paychecks and payoffs (not payouts). If the guys in charge of any business actually cared about their customers, this country would be a lot better off. But.. they don't.

[Fager Fan]

Just another example of how close minded Americans are, say goodbye to TVG and Cali racing.

Close-minded? To not want to just hand over millions to Betfair? If Betfair wants to get a cut of the handle, why don't they go and make an investment in a track? No, they just want to be the leech who siphons off a big chunk of racing's profits - on the backs of the owners and bettors.

[Charli125]

Close-minded? To not want to just hand over millions to Betfair? If Betfair wants to get a cut of the handle, why don't they go and make an investment in a track? No, they just want to be the leech who siphons off a big chunk of racing's profits - on the backs of the owners and bettors.

That about summarizes the position of the industry. With that mindset, handle will continue to dwindle and the industry will wonder where everyone went.

According to that way of thinking, online stock trading platforms, like Scottrade, are leeches, who just want to siphon off a big chunk of profits.

[classhandicapper]

Close-minded? To not want to just hand over millions to Betfair? If Betfair wants to get a cut of the handle, why don't they go and make an investment in a track? No, they just want to be the leech who siphons off a big chunk of racing's profits - on the backs of the owners and bettors.

The idea is to create a model that is mutually beneficial to Betfair, the industry, and the players.

Exchange wagering for the player and Betfair is a no brainer. It can't happen fast enough.

So it comes down to attracting enough new money to the industry to more than offset the profits of Betfair and net out to extra money for the industry.

Most people believe that in order to attract new money to the industry you have to make the game more attractive and more competitive with poker, sports gambling, illegal off shore rebate sites, etc

The take is lower on the exchange and also gives you the added benefit of being able to lock in prices and book bets - both of which make it more appealing and competitive. The model appears to be working in other countries.

This feels like we have a huge pie in the refrigerator, but the host would rather starve itself to death than put it on the kitchen table because it wants to stuff itself with the biggest slice.

[Fager Fan]

That about summarizes the position of the industry. With that mindset, handle will continue to dwindle and the industry will wonder where everyone went.

According to that way of thinking, online stock trading platforms, like Scottrade, are leeches, who just want to siphon off a big chunk of profits.

Bad analogy. The online trading platforms are nothing but brokers, and can only take commissions away from those who use their brokerage services over other brokers. They take ZERO away from those who put out the product for which there is stock.

A better one would be the casino that spent hundreds of millions to build their product, and Charli waltzing in thinking he can use their facility and have people bet through him instead of the casino. How long do you reckon it'd be before you were thrown out on your keister?

I'm not against exchange wagering, but racing has to own the platform instead of having some third party make billions off of the owners and tracks.

[Fager Fan]

The idea is to create a model that is mutually beneficial to Betfair, the industry, and the players.

Exchange wagering for the player and Betfair is a no brainer. It can't happen fast enough.

So it comes down to attracting enough new money to the industry to more than offset the profits of Betfair and net out to extra money for the industry.

Most people believe that in order to attract new money to the industry you have to make the game more attractive and more competitive with poker, sports gambling, illegal off shore rebate sites, etc

The take is lower on the exchange and also gives you the added benefit of being able to lock in prices and book bets - both of which make it more appealing and competitive. The model appears to be working in other countries.

This feels like we have a huge pie in the refrigerator, but the host would rather starve itself to death than put it on the kitchen table because it wants to stuff itself with the biggest slice.

Of course the takeout is lower. They don't have to pay for the track expenses and the owner expenses.

The solution is simple. Racing has known this was coming for years. It hardly takes any genius to raise the funds to develop our own platform and tell Betfair to take a hike. When they go out and buy a track, then they can get some of the income off of the betting from that platform.

[Charli125]

Bad analogy. The online trading platforms are nothing but brokers, and can only take commissions away from those who use their brokerage services over other brokers. They take ZERO away from those who put out the product for which there is stock.

What is an ADW if not a broker of parimutuel services? They don't take anything away from the tracks, in fact, they pay the tracks for the signal, and provide easy access to it. If it weren't for online wagering, I would probably bet $1,000 a year. Because I have a good broker, who invests in technology to provide a great platform, and who rebates out of what could be their profit, I bet a lot more than that.

There is a lot of discussion to be had about the equitable split of the takeout, and I won't profess to know what that split should be. To act like it won't be good for the game, because it's new and scary, is missing out on a great opportunity though. I'm not surprised though, it's the norm for our industry.

[classhandicapper]

Of course the takeout is lower. They don't have to pay for the track expenses and the owner expenses.

The solution is simple. Racing has known this was coming for years. It hardly takes any genius to raise the funds to develop our own platform and tell Betfair to take a hike. When they go out and buy a track, then they can get some of the income off of the betting from that platform.

The point is that there can be a "fair" tradeoff NOW. Yes, Betfair doesn't have the cost of a racetrack, but they already have and offer a superior product that will attract more money to the industry. So it can be a WIN WIN. Betfair can profit on their investment in software/technology and the tracks can avoid that investment and still make more money than they are making now.

So when (and if) these geniuses in the industry actually develop their own platform (probably just in time for it to be obsolete), will they be allowed to lower the take?

Are they actually going to lower the take or will they continue their current thinking and try to maximize profits in the short term?

I wouldn't bet on it anything positive coming from anywhere in the industry based on their track record. These guys are still fighting the necessary consolidation that would remove the weak tracks supported by casinos and divert that revenue to the strong ones so the remainder would be more profitable. Sorry, but IMO we are dealing with a lot of short term oriented self interested economic imbeciles in government and in the industry.

[Fager Fan]

The point is that there can be a "fair" tradeoff NOW. Yes, Betfair doesn't have the cost of a racetrack, but they already have and offer a superior product that will attract more money to the industry. So it can be a WIN WIN. Betfair can profit on their investment in software/technology and the tracks can avoid that investment and still make more money than they are making now.

So when (and if) these geniuses in the industry actually develop their own platform (probably just in time for it to be obsolete), will they be allowed to lower the take?

Are they actually going to lower the take or will they continue their current thinking and try to maximize profits in the short term?

I wouldn't bet on it anything positive coming from anywhere in the industry based on their track record. These guys are still fighting the necessary consolidation that would remove the weak tracks supported by casinos and divert that revenue to the strong ones so the remainder would be more profitable. Sorry, but IMO we are dealing with a lot of short term oriented self interested economic imbeciles in government and in the industry.

Do you know how much Betfair makes in Europe? That's hardly a win/win, giving them billions when it's peanuts to set up the platform.

Racing shouldn't give any ADW a deal which allows them to undercut the track. It's bad business. No CEO in his right mind would do that.

Speaking of short-term thinking, caring about one's own pockets, etc., that's an issue, but it's also what I find with gamblers too.

[Charli125]

Do you know how much Betfair makes in Europe? That's hardly a win/win, giving them billions when it's peanuts to set up the platform.
It's not peanuts to setup the platform. They've built a platform that performs up there with the major stock indexes, and they continue to improve and support it. If you don't believe that, go spend a few peanuts and see how good of an exchange you can build. It's so far above the current parimutuel system that it's like comparing the stock market to a swap meet.

Racing shouldn't give any ADW a deal which allows them to undercut the track. It's bad business. No CEO in his right mind would do that.

No, it's not bad business. Look at Amazon. They're getting a better deal than the businesses that are selling through them, yet tons of CEO's are selling their product through Amazon, at much lower margins. Why is that? Because a little of a whole lot is more than a whole lot of nothing.

[Fager Fan]

It's not peanuts to setup the platform. They've built a platform that performs up there with the major stock indexes, and they continue to improve and support it. If you don't believe that, go spend a few peanuts and see how good of an exchange you can build. It's so far above the current parimutuel system that it's like comparing the stock market to a swap meet.

It's peanuts compared to the costs of setting up many businesses, including a track (which is why Betfair doesn't go that route). It's also peanuts compared to how much they're profiting.

No, it's not bad business. Look at Amazon. They're getting a better deal than the businesses that are selling through them, yet tons of CEO's are selling their product through Amazon, at much lower margins. Why is that? Because a little of a whole lot is more than a whole lot of nothing.

Another bad analogy. A better one would be the movie industry, spending millions to make a movie, and then Joe with his camcorder taping the movie, selling it cheaper than the movie studio, and then having the gall to think if he sends the movie studio a couple bucks they should be happy.

What do you have against the industry owning its own platform?

[Fox]

Do you know how much Betfair makes in Europe? That's hardly a win/win, giving them billions when it's peanuts to set up the platform.


Billions? That is quite an exaggeration. And although it is not peanuts to set up the platform, I agree that a properly functioning horse racing exchange is not that great of a developmental burden and one should be developed in America by an American company. It is Betfair's concept that was highly innovative and not so much their platform and technology. If the CA exchange does get off the ground and Betfair is the first to offer it, I hope at least they do not get exclusive rights and there will be an opportunity for a competitor to emerge.

[Charli125]

What do you have against the industry owning its own platform?

Nothing at all, and I'm sure that's one of the main reasons they're stalling on legalizing it. Bring me an exchange, with liquidity, and a reasonable takeout and I'll play it. I would prefer if the industry owned it in terms of where the revenue went. That being said, they'll never approve a reasonable takeout, I'll be dead by the time they get their act together(and I'm only 33), and it will take even longer to get liquidity.

Betfair has all of those things right now and our industry is too stupid to realize that an exchange would bring in a ton of money. It would bring in math people, traders, people who don't know the winner but don't like the favorite, etc. If Betfair would white-label their product, and we could start tomorrow with a similar takeout rate, I'd be all over it. I just think it's wishful thinking to think that they'll ever get that done.

[Charli125]

Another bad analogy. A better one would be the movie industry, spending millions to make a movie, and then Joe with his camcorder taping the movie, selling it cheaper than the movie studio, and then having the gall to think if he sends the movie studio a couple bucks they should be happy.

I disagree with that analogy and think Amazon is perfect. It's a business decision. Take a little of the giant amounts wagered through ADW and Exchange wagering, or take all of nothing.

If you want to cut off the "vultures" that are ADW's, go ahead and see what happens. With no ADW you're not going to get much more at the track and handle will plummet. The tracks won't do this because it would put them all out of business within a season or two(unless they have a slot subsidy and at that point, who cares about handle?).

ADW/Exchange money will not move on-track. At least not the majority of it.

[cj]

I disagree with that analogy and think Amazon is perfect. It's a business decision. Take a little of the giant amounts wagered through ADW and Exchange wagering, or take all of nothing.

If you want to cut off the "vultures" that are ADW's, go ahead and see what happens. With no ADW you're not going to get much more at the track and handle will plummet. The tracks won't do this because it would put them all out of business within a season or two(unless they have a slot subsidy and at that point, who cares about handle?).

ADW/Exchange money will not move on-track. At least not the majority of it.

If the tracks could ever get together on anything, they would have long ago created their own ADW and stopped giving a cut to middle man.

[Charli125]

If the tracks could ever get together on anything, they would have long ago created their own ADW and stopped giving a cut to middle man.

Which is why I have no faith that they'll ever get an exchange platform. Too bad though. I'd be happy to bet through a track owned ADW.

[usedtolovetvg]

If the tracks could ever get together on anything, they would have long ago created their own ADW and stopped giving a cut to middle man.

I believe 2 of the top 3 ADWs are track owned.

[Charli125]

I believe 2 of the top 3 ADWs are track owned.

And none give rebates as far as I know. Or if they do, they're minuscule.

[usedtolovetvg]

And none give rebates as far as I know. Or if they do, they're minuscule.

I believe you are correct about that.

[edmond1]

If Exchange Wagering gets implemented here and commission rates are low (ie 5%) why would anyone continue to bet into pools where takeouts are 15% and higher ?? Makes no sense. Anyone I have introduced to Betfair/BetDaq are either still betting 90% of their money there or have decided to quit betting the horses for good. Most of these people are long time dedicated race track goers that now have no interest betting into the pools. I have made some wives very happy .......

Main reason that exchanges are good is because the commissions are very low. If tote takeouts were set at 5% they would be good too since you now have a chance to WIN.

[cj]

I believe 2 of the top 3 ADWs are track owned.

Yes, but not owned by all tracks working together. The current setup might be worse than none at all.

[usedtolovetvg]

Yes, but not owned by all tracks working together. The current setup might be worse than none at all.

That's for sure.

[Some_One]

If Exchange Wagering gets implemented here and commission rates are low (ie 5%) why would anyone continue to bet into pools where takeouts are 15% and higher ?? Makes no sense. Anyone I have introduced to Betfair/BetDaq are either still betting 90% of their money there or have decided to quit betting the horses for good. Most of these people are long time dedicated race track goers that now have no interest betting into the pools. I have made some wives very happy .......

Main reason that exchanges are good is because the commissions are very low. If tote takeouts were set at 5% they would be good too since you now have a chance to WIN.

1. Exchange wagering can only be done on win/show, you'll still need the tote for exotics
2. On track bettors will probably not have access to BF
3. Older handicappers tend to shun technology (Why do you think there still are bank tellers despite ATM's being able to do just about everything?)

[Some_One]

The solution is simple. Racing has known this was coming for years. It hardly takes any genius to raise the funds to develop our own platform and tell Betfair to take a hike. When they go out and buy a track, then they can get some of the income off of the betting from that platform.

How many Ipad-like tablets are out there on the market right now? a lot, but everyone still wants the Ipad and it dominates the market share numbers because (IMO) it's the best product all around, Apple has perfected it. What you are suggesting is the tracks to somehow decision a knock off of the exchange wagering model when Betfair has already perfected it, including already providing US races to back and lay on.

[craigbraddick]

It's going to be a big setback for Betfair and, ultimately, TVG when exchange wagering finally goes six feet under in the US - and it will.

Those involved in UK gambling don't fully understand the US gaming environment, and vice versa.
Exchange wagering stands about the same chance as sports betting in this country - slim to none.

Why is that?
Because it's bookmaking.

Just because you dress a duck up differently, if you see it waddle, and you spot the webbed feet, you know it's still a duck. ;)

But what is wrong with bookmaking. We are told America is the home of choice and free enterprise yet you guys hang onto an antiquated system of wagering that in itself is the very opposite of choice and free enterprise.

Why do American horse players have this hang up with bookmaking? If one cannot see the advantages of doing of bookmaking and exchange wagering is one really in the position to defend yet another hike in takeout?

Craig

[Robert Goren]

How many Ipad-like tablets are out there on the market right now? a lot, but everyone still wants the Ipad and it dominates the market share numbers because (IMO) it's the best product all around, Apple has perfected it. What you are suggesting is the tracks to somehow decision a knock off of the exchange wagering model when Betfair has already perfected it, including already providing US races to back and lay on.Betfair has perfected a model for making money for Betfair. Rembember that there has a few posters who have said that Betfair "taxes" you if you win to much. And there is still the problem of funding the purses. The more I learn about them, the less I like them. Exchange wagering may or may not work here( there are a lot of problems to be resolved), but Betfair as it is run now probably won't.
The big question for me is how big a bettor do you have to be to use exchange betting and how much money do you need to lay bets?

[usedtolovetvg]

The big question for me is how big a bettor do you have to be to use exchange betting and how much money do you need to lay bets?

Those who are the most successful through the Exchange are not gamblers, they are bookmakers. Most of them use bots. The key is to bet a horse at higher odds than you lay that horse to someone else. Liquidity is key. Betfair is a major player helping add this liquidity The taxing for each race currently is not from each bet placed but rather how the customer ends up after the race is over; i.e. he loses $100 on the lay side but cashes $110 on the win side, he pays 5% to BF on the $10. Of that .5% - 1.5% goes to the track. Those that have figured it out and continually show a profit are surcharged an additional 20% - 60%. Of that, 0% goes to the tracks.

For the gamblers wanting to get a good price on their horse, they will be battling the bots to get the best price The gambler may get a better price but not a huge overlay compared to the tote. Those will be grabbed by the software programs, maybe even BF itself. Also, decisions will have to be made very quickly. By the time you decide whether or not you want the price offered, if it is really good, it will probably be snatched by a bot.

[horses4courses]

But what is wrong with bookmaking. We are told America is the home of choice and free enterprise yet you guys hang onto an antiquated system of wagering that in itself is the very opposite of choice and free enterprise.

Why do American horse players have this hang up with bookmaking? If one cannot see the advantages of doing of bookmaking and exchange wagering is one really in the position to defend yet another hike in takeout?

Craig

I have no problem with legal bookmaking whatsoever.
I worked in the business for over 20 years.
Illegal books, both in the US and offshore, continue to flourish with a US customer base.
That is bad news for all but the law breakers.

Americans are caught in a time warp when it comes to bookmaking - sports betting, in particular. That is because most politicians won't touch it, as it supposedly has an adverse effect on the US family, and the sports leagues falsely claim that it taints their product. The facts are that the popularity of their product is due, in no small part, to advent of point spread wagering.

The risk of point shaving scandals, and other game fixing problems (such as NBA referee Doherty) still exist in the current gaming environment. Properly regulated sports wagering would stand a much better chance of policing the leagues for betting abuse than is the case right now.

I believe that exchange wagering could help the horse racing industry.
It's unlikely that it will ever get the chance or, if it does, that it would ever be conducted in a manner which is beneficial to all parties involved.
There just seem to be too many obstacles in the way.

[PaceAdvantage]

But what is wrong with bookmaking. We are told America is the home of choice and free enterprise yet you guys hang onto an antiquated system of wagering that in itself is the very opposite of choice and free enterprise.

Why do American horse players have this hang up with bookmaking? If one cannot see the advantages of doing of bookmaking and exchange wagering is one really in the position to defend yet another hike in takeout?

CraigNice to see you posting here again Craig... :ThmbUp:

[Some_One]

Betfair has perfected a model for making money for Betfair. Rembember that there has a few posters who have said that Betfair "taxes" you if you win to much. And there is still the problem of funding the purses. The more I learn about them, the less I like them. Exchange wagering may or may not work here( there are a lot of problems to be resolved), but Betfair as it is run now probably won't.
The big question for me is how big a bettor do you have to be to use exchange betting and how much money do you need to lay bets?

The purse funding issue will always be around as long as there are way too many races that the current levels of handle can't possibly be support (if you depend on wagering, you'll need HK numbers where they pull 10X or so handle for the purses they offer every card). As to how the last part, anyone can put a lay bet if you have the funds in the account to cover the bet (want to lay a 2-1 horse to win 10 bucks, you'll need to put up 20 from your account balance)

[johnhannibalsmith]

Nice to see you posting here again Craig... :ThmbUp:

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Just the other day I was wondering where you had disappeared off to.

[Jeff P]

Why do American horse players have this hang up with bookmaking? If one cannot see the advantages of doing of bookmaking and exchange wagering is one really in the position to defend yet another hike in takeout?

Craig,

It's not horseplayers who are against bookmaking.

-jp

.

[classhandicapper]

Racing shouldn't give any ADW a deal which allows them to undercut the track. It's bad business. No CEO in his right mind would do that.



You are still missing the point.

For years I bet at offshore books to get rebates. The track didn't get a penny of my handle.

If there was an exchange in the US, all that money would have gone through the exchange instead of an off shore and the tracks would have gotten a piece of the action. A small piece of something is a lot more than a large piece of nothing. Some of the biggest whales are offshore and that money could/should be flowing to the tracks.

It's not a $1 for $1 transfer of money away from the tracks to the exchanges.

The exchanges will bring in BRAND new money so both can benefit.

If you want to argue the tracks should build their own exchange, that's a valid debate, but you still have to come up with the capital and resources to develop it, support, operate it, maintain it etc... and you still have to get these molasses asses to actually do it. Time and capital has an economic cost too. If someone else already has what you need, you can free those resources to do something else innovative that will make you money.

[Stillriledup]

But what is wrong with bookmaking. We are told America is the home of choice and free enterprise yet you guys hang onto an antiquated system of wagering that in itself is the very opposite of choice and free enterprise.

Why do American horse players have this hang up with bookmaking? If one cannot see the advantages of doing of bookmaking and exchange wagering is one really in the position to defend yet another hike in takeout?

Craig

Because there's nothing in bookmaking for the horsemen and they run the sport, the 'tracks' are just puppets with the horsemen pulling the strings.

[bob60566]

Once the rules have been agreed upon the tracks will come into the picture, as the are not going to sit back and see a drop in revenue.
Summmer 2014 wiil be all systems go for all and I think there will be more than two.

[Charli125]

Once the rules have been agreed upon the tracks will come into the picture, as the are not going to sit back and see a drop in revenue.
Summmer 2014 wiil be all systems go for all and I think there will be more than two.

They've been sitting back watching a drop in revenue for dozens of years. What makes this any different?

[bob60566]

They've been sitting back watching a drop in revenue for dozens of years. What makes this any different?

They have to define the tracks for 2014 .

[SandyW]

Exchange betting in the U.S. is just wishful thinking, not enough money to go around.

[bob60566]

Exchange betting in the U.S. is just wishful thinking, not enough money to go around.
That is correct for the smaller tracks

[Stillriledup]

Exchange betting in the U.S. is just wishful thinking, not enough money to go around.

Here's a novel idea...just permit US residents to sign up for Betfair.

Problem solved! :ThmbUp:

[horses4courses]

Here's a novel idea...just permit US residents to sign up for Betfair.

Problem solved! :ThmbUp:

Let all US citizens over the age of 21 do business with UK bookmakers and exchanges -
as long as the UK books pay a percentage fee to the US.
States could decide if their residents are eligible, and would receive revenue for participating.

[SandyW]

Here's a novel idea...just permit US residents to sign up for Betfair.

Problem solved! :ThmbUp:

Who is going to get the trainers and horsemen to agree to exchange betting???
That will be the fly in the ointment.

[bob60566]

Who is going to get the trainers and horsemen to agree to exchange betting???
That will be the fly in the ointment.

Money talks,Not the people that got racing to were it is today

[Charli125]

Money talks,Not the people that got racing to were it is today

I wish, but I don't see it that way. Look at the takeout increases we've seen over the years. If money talks then these people aren't listening.

[angeleyes55]

If Exchange Wagering gets implemented here and commission rates are low (ie 5%) why would anyone continue to bet into pools where takeouts are 15% and higher ?? Makes no sense. Anyone I have introduced to Betfair/BetDaq are either still betting 90% of their money there or have decided to quit betting the horses for good. Most of these people are long time dedicated race track goers that now have no interest betting into the pools. I have made some wives very happy .......

Main reason that exchanges are good is because the commissions are very low. If tote takeouts were set at 5% they would be good too since you now have a chance to WIN.

Right ON !!!!! I rarely bet into pools anymore since joining Betfair several years ago..... Why would anyone be that dumb/sick enough to get robbed....
If exchange takeout was 20% and tote was only 5% then reverse obviously true...