Why do you bet on horses?

[horses4courses]

Is it for the thrill of the action?
Do you make money doing it?
Or, is it a losing proposition but a cheap hobby for you?

Oh btw, I answered the poll as being a cheap hobby for me.
I have turned a profit in only 2 of the past 5 years.
The losses average out at less than 2 rounds of golf/month.

[Magister Ludi]

Is it for the thrill of the action?
Do you make money doing it?
Or, is it a losing proposition but a cheap hobby for you?

$

[GaryG]

1. I make money doing it
2. It is an intellectual challenge that offers a brand new set of circumstances each day.
3. The involvement makes it a participatory sport rather than baseball or football where you are just a spectator.
4. I love horses (mules and donkeys too) and have been around them all my life.

[joeprunes]

If you like to gamble its the best way to make money with little investment, compared to casino gambling...jmo

[mannyberrios]

I love horse racing

[Robert Goren]

You left out " I am a degenerate gambler"

I like to think I do it for the challenge of picking a winner, but the degenerate gambler is probably closer to the truth.

[DJofSD]

"The first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club."

[horses4courses]

You left out " I am a degenerate gambler"

I like to think I do it for the challenge of picking a winner, but the degenerate gambler is probably closer to the truth.

See your point, RG, but I thought the bottom choice was close :)
Appreciate the honesty.

[dansan]

What happen to I lose most of the time is that one big score I'm trying to hit to justify me playing this game

[DeltaLover]

You left out " I am a degenerate gambler"

I like to think I do it for the challenge of picking a winner, but the degenerate gambler is probably closer to the truth.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[lamboguy]

i tried to get a J-o-b, but no one would hire me. i invented one in betting horse racing. my only problem is that i lose 9 out of every 10 days. i do manage a few horses so watching races all day helps me stay on top of how to spot the horses.

[BlueChip@DRF]

It's a hobby for me. If I am playing serious, then I will either back up my opinion with a balls-to-the-wall Win bet or I just shut up, pass the race and watch. If it's just spending a casual day at the track, then dime supers with bombs on top for me.

[Ocala Mike]

Weekend bettor only now, but I've been around the game nearly all my life. Never approached it as a way to "supplement my income," but always as a hobby, diversion, or sport to follow.

I checked the third box down but really aspects of boxes two, three, and sometimes four apply. When I invoke four, I "take down the balloon" and stay out for awhile, usually coming back strongly from the hiatus.

[dkithore]

As a recreational player, I find this a perfect hobby in my retirement to engage me mentally an activity so consumes me totally. I am a "borderline pathological gambler", perhaps same as Goren's assessment except I prefer the glorified term used by the counselor. I am elated when I win and bolsters my ego that I am still alive and competent. When I lose, I am fulfilling my indebtedness to other players, trainers, owners, horses and those I must have owed in my past. Karma.

[riskman]

Horse racing to me is about money.As I have said previously, take the money out of it, I would not play.
I lose more bets than I win, dosen't everyone? Sometimes I make a profit but when I lose, I still had a good time.Playing the horses is an escape from the world I usually live in.Playing against other players from all walks in life, occupations,incomes, ages and ethnicity all attempting to win at a parimutuel game appeals to me.

[Overlay]

A never-ending mental challenge. When I'm wrong, I can learn from it and improve. And when I'm right, I can get paid for it. What a deal!

[Not4Love]

I used to be able to show a profit. No longer. Got into this business full time because of my handicapping ability. If i had to do it now it would never have happened.

[raybo]

I do not like gambling, per se, I won't even buy a lottery ticket or a scratch off. That being said, I play the ponies strictly for the money. If I couldn't make money doing it, I would not be doing it. The challenge is certainly an attraction, but over the years I have spent way too much time and effort to do it just for the challenge. I can go months without placing a bet, so action is not a factor.

I do like working in Excel, and if it weren't for being able to profit from my play in racing, I would be doing something else in Excel, probably the stock market or something similar.

[burnsy]

Love the action. Some years it supplements my income, some years it doesn't. This game is a huge rollar coaster, some 35 years worth, when your hot, your hot. Grew up in Saratoga and only left when i was in the military. Was placing bets before i was 15 years old. Love horses anyway, when i was kid i used to hotwalk and work jobs at the track. We used to hop the fence to save 2 bucks when we were kids. Some of my friends own trotters and pacers at the harness track and i've helped them around the barn too. When i got sick and had to "retire" from the union, i took a job there a few summers ago as a security gaurd, worked the 5 am to 1 pm shift on the backstretch and crossing horses....it was a blast....would of done it for free! Still remember Alydar vs. Affirmed with some 60,000 people there..even the people are great, theres dozens of "characters" at the track, you can't buy laughs like this..when my last breath comes, it won't be about the money or "bottom line"...its all about the thrill, the horses, the people and the action. This shit grew on me like moss......

[VeryOldMan]

A never-ending mental challenge. When I'm wrong, I can learn from it and improve. And when I'm right, I can get paid for it. What a deal!

Amen! I'm just a recreational player and picked option 3; what drew me back to this game that I've followed off and on for 40+ years is the mental challenge. Pulling the lever on a slot machine requires no thought - reviewing and interpreting a race program requires me to keep my brain active. I wander around my closest racino between races, sometimes play the penny slots to keep me occupied, and realize how few of the people in the joint realize or value the mental challenge they could have if they walked through the door towards the race track.

[MJC922]

It's an interesting question that I've pondered for quite awhile over the years. Several things are in play for me. I think somewhere is a deep-seated control issue where in my early years as a young kid after my parents divorced, I felt kind of powerless to make things 'right' again. During these years going to the track with my mom and grandma on the weekends became sort of an escape with handicapping winners maybe somehow making things 'right' again? It's hard to say. I know at some point it became an obsession. Additionally growing too tall to continue riding pushed me more into the handicapping direction.

By age 17-18 I was out of school and on a horseplaying mission, fueled all the more by my stepdad who said it couldn't be done. By age 19 I was making things 'right' fulltime with my first winning year and I suspect one of the youngest profitable full time players around. I played for the money, but had (and still have) a huge passion for handicapping. The building of self-control that it takes to profit has also benefitted me greatly in all aspects of my life. The money in those days was quite a bit more than I could make working at a lower wage job, however by no means was it ever a large sum. With that being said, taking a $1000 in the spring and running it into $30000 over six months of mostly disciplined flat betting makes you feel euphoric to say the least. By age 30 though after a decade of this lifestyle I was pretty much burned out and looking for an opportunity to have a normal life.

So here's to the last ten years of normalcy, a wife, kids, a day job. I made the right decision at the time to walk away. Today I'm back in the game again but just part time with the goal to supplement income. I don't think it would be possible for me to ever go full time again with no other income. Even just playing on the weekends I notice my old ulcers start to flare up.

[raybo]

It's an interesting question that I've pondered for quite awhile over the years. Several things are in play for me. I think somewhere is a deep-seated control issue where in my early years as a young kid after my parents divorced, I felt kind of powerless to make things 'right' again. During these years going to the track with my mom and grandma on the weekends became sort of an escape with handicapping winners maybe somehow making things 'right' again? It's hard to say. I know at some point it became an obsession. Additionally growing too tall to continue riding pushed me more into the handicapping direction.

By age 17-18 I was out of school and on a horseplaying mission, fueled all the more by my stepdad who said it couldn't be done. By age 19 I was making things 'right' fulltime with my first winning year and I suspect one of the youngest profitable full time players around. I played for the money, but had (and still have) a huge passion for handicapping. The building of self-control that it takes to profit has also benefitted me greatly in all aspects of my life. The money in those days was quite a bit more than I could make working at a lower wage job, however by no means was it ever a large sum. With that being said, taking a $1000 in the spring and running it into $30000 over six months of mostly disciplined flat betting makes you feel euphoric to say the least. By age 30 though after a decade of this lifestyle I was pretty much burned out and looking for an opportunity to have a normal life.

So here's to the last ten years of normalcy, a wife, kids, a day job. I made the right decision at the time to walk away. Today I'm back in the game again but just part time with the goal to supplement income. I don't think it would be possible for me to ever go full time again with no other income. Even just playing on the weekends I notice my old ulcers start to flare up.

I hear you!! Full-time play isn't for the weak of heart.

[NJ Stinks]

I checked the second box down. Winning is great but losing is not the end of the world either.

When I was 35 and took $60 to the track to play one live card - that's pressure. Twenty some years later I feel no pressure because I'm way past putting myself in a position to blow more than I can afford to lose.

Now it's about having fun, using my head, and playing the game. Give me a full field of turf horses and I'm one happy guy. Hell, who am I kidding? Give me a harness program or a greyhound program and I'm one happy guy.

[MPRanger]

I have fun playing loose and fast. But I know how to play the right way
though. As long as I haven't initiated a serious program I allow myself
to make stupid plays that don't really cost me anything in the spirit
of having fun.

I'm interested in advantage play gambling as it's own game. Horse racing
is only one of the platforms to put money into play. Generally, this is my
order of preference:

1.) Poker
2.) Pool
3.) Sports Betting

4.) Horse Racing
5.) Black Jack

I like the top three because you can get a lot of unsophisticated action
in bars and other places.

I would like to learn how to handicap the stock market. My understanding
is that it is an efficient market and beating it is pretty tough other than
using a buy and hold strategy for life.

[goatchaser]

Beats Camping, Boating, Dirt Biking, RV'ing....Or whatevver your thing is. At least with horse Racing...There's always that threat of a Huge score and the excitement it brings.

[raybo]

Beats Camping, Boating, Dirt Biking, RV'ing....Or whatevver your thing is. At least with horse Racing...There's always that threat of a Huge score and the excitement it brings.

I take it you never raced dirt bikes. Talk about excitement! What I wouldn't give to still be young enough to do that, horse racing would not even be a consideration, because if I could afford to race bikes again, I wouldn't need horse racing to supplement my income, I'd necessarily have plenty of extra money laying around. :lol:

[Viruss]

I enjoy the thrill of picking those longshot winners.. most nights are break even ... at some point i would like to say i'm in the supplment income group... but I'm not there yet.

Earl J

[johnhannibalsmith]

Couldn't figure out bridge and cribbage.

[Aner]

Spent my working days as an analytical chemist and the the thrill of analyzing horses (handicapping) is strong. I enjoy the figuring just as much as the betting. A friend once asked me if I ever fantasized about knowing the outcome of races ahead of time, thinking that would be super fun. I've come to the conclusion that would be as much fun as going to the ATM. Sure it would be great to be rich, but it certainly would not be fun. This game with both stick and carrot would not be as much fun without them.

Some parts of my game are profitable, some not. I have tried limiting my bets to only those areas that are profitable, but too much excitement is lost. I have come to terms with my gambling personality knowing I will probably loose modest amounts every year. The alternative would be boring. Based on this and betting minimums, I would characterize myself as a gambling dilettante.

[lamboguy]

the main reason why i bet is because when my money goes into the pool you can describe it as "dumb money". i like spreading the wealth around, i am doing my part to keep this game alive.

after reading this thread and many other's i see why i lose, its because everyone else wins.

[raybo]

the main reason why i bet is because when my money goes into the pool you can describe it as "dumb money". i like spreading the wealth around, i am doing my part to keep this game alive.

after reading this thread and many other's i see why i lose, its because everyone else wins.

According to the poll, only 18% are winning, and, knowing as we do that many of those are probably actually losing, then, "everyone else" doesn't win.

[MJC922]

According to the poll, only 18% are winning, and, knowing as we do that many of those are probably actually losing, then, "everyone else" doesn't win.

Can't disagree with you there, a decimal point in front of it would probably be more like it. Maybe at the bigger tracks the number is a bit higher than 1% but not by much IMO. For every few thousand people I saw there every day there were less than a handful I would even risk a dime they might be showing a consistent profit, I only knew one or two guys other than myself who even kept records of their wagers. For now I voted for the 4th option though, being brutally honest is the best policy, however I'm optimistic that I'll eventually get sharp again.

[bob60566]

Gives me break from Handicapping Keno :)

[mannyberrios]

A never-ending mental challenge. When I'm wrong, I can learn from it and improve. And when I'm right, I can get paid for it. What a deal!
What a great post

[Beachbabe]

To quote Gen Patton as he looked around at the carnage after a battle:

"God help me, but I love it so."

[CincyHorseplayer]

Horseracing saved me.Growing up in the pretentious reality of the music scene or worse the world of would be writers,horseracing was the equalizer and debunker of bull$hit.There is no intellectual place to copout and hide with racing.You acknowledge reality and bet your opinion.Bets speak louder than words.It was a breath of fresh air.And it launched a journey of discovery I could only imagine once upon a time as a 20 year old.Now I'm starting to get Sire Ratings and thinking about the shape of hoofs!When I bet I assume I'm going to make money.When I don't bet I watch with glee.How good is that?On good days I dominate,on bad days it's a drop in the bucket.You know you love the game when you get drunk and the last thing you watch on Youtube is horse races!I never saw horseracing coming.I am so glad it hit me.I think it's the greatest game in the world.Man,brain,animal.What's not to love?

[salty]

I love horse racing because it is just so exciting, and at the same time devastating. My favorite moments are of course my huge wins, which to me are over $700, they keep me going. I don't mind losing as long as there is no funny business, like castellano giving up in the turf race at saratoga last year, don't remember the horse or the date but i do remember flipping out because he wasn't giving it his all on a horse that looked to be game in the stretch. I know someone else here had some money on that race and knows exactly what horse he was on. I love being able to beat myself up when I narrow a race to two horses then pick the wrong one. I did it to myself today in the spiral, i narrowed it down to the 7 or 9, took the 7 and the 9 wins at 15-1, ah why did i do that, not even a $2 win ticket on the winner.

I like the fact that i don't have to leave my house to play. Its nice not to have to sit at a table for hours even though the drink service is nice, i don't have a problem with walking to my own fridge to get a drink. I don't have any slots or tables to lose my money on the way out either which to me is a big plus. I like the mental exercise of handicapping and i know that my lifelong passion will be playing this game. I just wish there were more young people to talk to though. I'm 24 and almost everyone i meet are almost double my age.

I don't mind taking the hour trip up to suffolk to watch some low level claimers duke it out, and i surely don't mind spending a day at saratoga. If I finally get a good sized bankroll I am determined to take a long trip to every track on the east coast. If things keep going good it shouldn't be far off.

:cool:

[dansan]

10 horse players are lying :liar:

[raybo]

10 horse players are lying :liar:

Might as well say all 11 are lying, huh? Like you have a clue anyway.

[mannyberrios]

To quote Gen Patton as he looked around at the carnage after a battle:

"God help me, but I love it so."
That is the quote of the century

[CincyHorseplayer]

What's the carnage after a day at the races?The end of a hot dog bun in a box of cold fries and a warm beer?I've definitely had my ass kicked at the races but I've never seen it so grimacingly accepting as that!Now I've seen women that were dime pieces and sinister individuals and I could look at them as my life was in tatters and appreciate the carnage!But that's another story!

[magwell]

total addiction....... and no rehab is wanted or needed.

[funnsss1]

after watching big red win the triple crown I was hooked.Never got to see a live horse race till 1980 then it was total addiction and for the rest of the 80s and 90s actually made money at the track.Along came the year 2000 and horse racing changed and so did my winning consistently at the track.I went from a daily player to a weekend warrior and now because of the games that jockeys trainers and beting companies play my yearly wagering has gone from 10 to 15000 a year to maybe 2000.I still play the breeders cup and the triple crown races but for the most part have stopped playing north american tracks.The way jockeys and jockey clubs stiff the betting public is a joke and anyone who consistently watches races can see when jockeys are riding horses to finish in the top 4 or not.Its become so bad racing as we know it will die a slow death becuase of the greed of the betting companies and the total disregard for the little guy.I hope someone comes into raciing and brings back some integrity to the game it is sorely needed.

[dansan]

Make that 14 and I don't need a spread sheet to tell me that Raybo

[raybo]

after watching big red win the triple crown I was hooked.Never got to see a live horse race till 1980 then it was total addiction and for the rest of the 80s and 90s actually made money at the track.Along came the year 2000 and horse racing changed and so did my winning consistently at the track.I went from a daily player to a weekend warrior and now because of the games that jockeys trainers and beting companies play my yearly wagering has gone from 10 to 15000 a year to maybe 2000.I still play the breeders cup and the triple crown races but for the most part have stopped playing north american tracks.The way jockeys and jockey clubs stiff the betting public is a joke and anyone who consistently watches races can see when jockeys are riding horses to finish in the top 4 or not.Its become so bad racing as we know it will die a slow death becuase of the greed of the betting companies and the total disregard for the little guy.I hope someone comes into raciing and brings back some integrity to the game it is sorely needed.

That's about what happened to me, saw Secretariat and I fell in love. I went to the track for the first time in 1978, but quickly found that I knew absolutely nothing about handicapping or wagering, so except for 1 more trip to the track a year or two later, I spent the next 20 years studying horse racing, without betting. Until I reached the point of "knowing" the game could be profitable, I refused to waste any money on wagering, I spent it on DRFs and results from the newspaper. I finally started betting, in the late 90s and except for taking a year off from burnout due to playing full time for a while, I've been profitable every year since. It's all about the money, for me.

[Track Collector]

I play the horses because I like the intellectual challenge and enjoy working with data. I am still working towards the goal of being consistently profitable, and it would be very satisfying to become part of the extremely small, select group who do so.

Having consistent profits from racing would allow me to consider an additional trip or two each year which could used to visit or new track or return to a favorite one. :)

[thaskalos]

I got attracted to this game because it seemed to me to be the least hypocritical form of democracy left on the face of the earth.

Doctors, lawyers, brick layers, the unemployed...all gathered together with only one goal in mind; to figure out the winner of the next race...with handicapping knowledge being the great "equalizer".

[iceknight]

The occasional win helps. Watching exciting races where there are amazing stretch battles of great moves is a thrilling experience!

It sucks that the first race I ever played (Preakness 11) was a profitable day for me so I kinda stuck around. Watching horses like Caleb's Posse and Shackleford compete their hearts out and many other memorable performances has surely kept me around!!

[precocity]

the main reason why i bet is because when my money goes into the pool you can describe it as "dumb money". i like spreading the wealth around, i am doing my part to keep this game alive.

after reading this thread and many other's i see why i lose, its because everyone else wins.
not really I love the action either I win big or lose big? thats my problem?

[Steve 'StatMan']

5) I no longer bet the races because I live in IL and the stupid, lax politicians let the ADW Law expire without renewal, and cracked down on the ADW's so it hasn't been offered since Mid-January. The politicians are still busy arguing and not accomplishing many other more important things and unlikely to get to this soon, unless perhaps Arlington and CDI (Twin Spires) try to use influence when the AP meet starts in early May.

[Storm Cadet]

Have you seen what it costs to play a round of golf on Long Island ? Plus the whole day is shot with slow play?

Give me four hours at Belmont where I can sit in the second tier, get a great view, relax, think, smoke a cigar, sip some bourbon, and play OR not play depending on things. It is a inexpensive way to unwind from the work week ...handicapping is still fun whether I bet or not!

[raybo]

Have you seen what it costs to play a round of golf on Long Island ? Plus the whole day is shot with slow play?

Give me four hours at Belmont where I can sit in the second tier, get a great view, relax, think, smoke a cigar, sip some bourbon, and play OR not play depending on things. It is a inexpensive way to unwind from the work week ...handicapping is still fun whether I bet or not!

Funny, that's how many play a round of golf! :lol: (substitute a golf cart for the second tier, and the word "play" is a relative term in both cases. By the way, here in Texas seniors can play for $15 - $25, including cart and a barbecue sandwich, beans, chips, and iced tea between front and back 9s)

[dthorne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlkMR0_Lsg&feature=player_embedded

[Ocala Mike]

So after 105 votes, 87 of us either admit to losing or not caring about winning as we shovel our money through the tote. Given that some of the 18 "winners" may be puffing a little, and given that denizens of this board should, on average, be more successful at this game than Joe Horseplayer, I think that it's evident that this game is very tough to beat regularly as nearly 90% of us admittedly don't and are subsidizing the income enhancements of some 10% of us who say they do.

So when's post time for the next race?

[raybo]

Well said! The poll only reflects those voting. Such a small number of voters, of such a large membership, is hardly a true reflection of the public at large, or even of this forum's membership. Likely the poll is skewed on both ends of the spectrum due to the small number of voters.

Most members here simply love the game and the excitement and the challenge. The win/loss ratio means less to them than to others of more profit/loss motivations. I think most here would agree that insisting on profitability while participating in this game is not high up on the list of their priorities. If it were, this forum would be pretty damn boring, and not nearly as diverse and interesting.

Just flip the page, and it's a new ballgame!

[thaskalos]

The vast majority of the betting public SAY that they are playing "to win"...but the reality is that they are more interested in having fun. They want to win while playing THEIR way...which is often the antithesis of what winning play is all about.

Winning play is not "exciting"...because it often has extended periods of "boredom" in-between the "thrills".

All winning gamblers agree on one thing...no matter what their game of choice might be:

If you are not bored while gambling...you are playing the game wrong.

[traynor]

The vast majority of the betting public SAY that they are playing "to win"...but the reality is that they are more interested in having fun. They want to win while playing THEIR way...which is often the antithesis of what winning play is all about.

Winning play is not "exciting"...because it often has extended periods of "boredom" in-between the "thrills".

All winning gamblers agree on one thing...no matter what their game of choice might be:

If you are not bored while gambling...you are playing the game wrong.

Or--stated another way--if you are not bored while gambling, it is because you don't know how to play well enough.

[cj]

If you are not bored while gambling...you are playing the game wrong.

This is why I love playing from home. I don't feel compelled to bet a single race. If I'm bored, I can always find something else to do. It wasn't like that when you were at the track or at the OTB.

[raybo]

The vast majority of the betting public SAY that they are playing "to win"...but the reality is that they are more interested in having fun. They want to win while playing THEIR way...which is often the antithesis of what winning play is all about.

Winning play is not "exciting"...because it often has extended periods of "boredom" in-between the "thrills".

All winning gamblers agree on one thing...no matter what their game of choice might be:

If you are not bored while gambling...you are playing the game wrong.

You're right, of course!

[raybo]

This is why I love playing from home. I don't feel compelled to bet a single race. If I'm bored, I can always find something else to do. It wasn't like that when you were at the track or at the OTB.

Exactly, got the TV on, or the stereo playing, coffee pot on the stove, snacks right next to me, cigarettes close at hand, my better half a few feet away, and the lake just outside the door and down the hill. Real cozy, unencumbered, and comfortable. Boredom doesn't last long, just change the channel or head outside. Gambling, ahhh, I can take it or leave it.

[CincyHorseplayer]

The vast majority of the betting public SAY that they are playing "to win"...but the reality is that they are more interested in having fun. They want to win while playing THEIR way...which is often the antithesis of what winning play is all about.

Winning play is not "exciting"...because it often has extended periods of "boredom" in-between the "thrills".

All winning gamblers agree on one thing...no matter what their game of choice might be:

If you are not bored while gambling...you are playing the game wrong.

I don't know about that Thask.I had an entirely boring day Saturday,won money,and am still watching replays that happened and loving life because of!Did you enjoy Saturday?This in my opinion separates winners from losers in this game.If you don't love it when you don't bet=you're done.If you have to bet constantly=youre done.I know.Saturday was a chalk fest and many days are like that.The meteor hit the earth and civilization bottlenecked.The good players find their nugget or take it with a grain of salt.I take this game in a seasonal and age fashion.It's exciting to know the expectations and how youth progresses.Like I said man,if you aren't into the organic nature of the game,you are done.I look at those hillbillies wince on them gambling boats playing 21.Jesus I could make a load and do so while I'm drunk at them riverboat casinos.But you know what?I'd rather look at horseflesh than human flesh.It's more agreeable.I think you are having a conflict of how distribute your money.Go play cards if you hate this game bro.It's pretty simple.Don't create a handicappers corner when you absolutley loathe the game.The money bet isn't an entitlement to bash it inadvertantly and relentlessly.I expect the cash cow over a year from this game.Last year it was a measly 8%.A lot of years it's in the crazy 37-129% range.That's over time.You seem to want this on a dime bro and it's visibly irritating!In my New York accent "how you doin ova theye?"!Patience IMO is the mark of greatness.I'm seeing you lose yours on a regular basis.The game owes you wins.Take it.

[Robert Goren]

The only thing boring about betting on horses is losing. Though maybe with your fancy computer programs, you can make it boring. To me, each race is a puzzle. Solving that puzzle is always fun because each race is different.

[Maximillion]

For me,the most excitement is the time between.. when my handicapping is done for the day,and I feel I have selected (say 10 or so) horses who figure to be undervalued.(wish there where more days like this)

[raybo]

I think you have to put what Thask said in perspective. He plays full time and depends on the income to live. I did that once, and he's right, it is quite boring, and more than a little stressful, another bore.

For me, I enjoy the money far more than the racing. There is much more to life than racing or gambling. Golf comes to mind, as well as other things.

With the advent of online wagering, and my early retirement, my priorities have changed dramatically. I'm pretty comfortable at present, and play the ponies when I feel like it. I really like working on my racing tools. I like creating things, having been a draftsman and then a production manager of custom residential millwork materials. So, designing, and creating is part and parcel for me.

So, when I'm playing the races, from home, for supplemental income, I'm not subject to the boredom of full time play, I can just do something else any time I want. If racing was all I did, I'd be bored to death. I mean really! Running the program, placing the bets, tabulating at the end of the day with a couple of mouse clicks, not much of a life is it?

[thaskalos]

I don't know about that Thask.I had an entirely boring day Saturday,won money,and am still watching replays that happened and loving life because of!Did you enjoy Saturday?This in my opinion separates winners from losers in this game.If you don't love it when you don't bet=you're done.If you have to bet constantly=youre done.I know.Saturday was a chalk fest and many days are like that.The meteor hit the earth and civilization bottlenecked.The good players find their nugget or take it with a grain of salt.I take this game in a seasonal and age fashion.It's exciting to know the expectations and how youth progresses.Like I said man,if you aren't into the organic nature of the game,you are done.I look at those hillbillies wince on them gambling boats playing 21.Jesus I could make a load and do so while I'm drunk at them riverboat casinos.But you know what?I'd rather look at horseflesh than human flesh.It's more agreeable.I think you are having a conflict of how distribute your money.Go play cards if you hate this game bro.It's pretty simple.Don't create a handicappers corner when you absolutley loathe the game.The money bet isn't an entitlement to bash it inadvertantly and relentlessly.I expect the cash cow over a year from this game.Last year it was a measly 8%.A lot of years it's in the crazy 37-129% range.That's over time.You seem to want this on a dime bro and it's visibly irritating!In my New York accent "how you doin ova theye?"!Patience IMO is the mark of greatness.I'm seeing you lose yours on a regular basis.The game owes you wins.Take it.

I apologize for having "irritated" you, Cincy, and all I can say is that...had I known my posts were having this kind of an effect on you, I would have been a lot more careful with my words. Irritating folks is far from my intention here.

I would like to touch up on a few of the points that you've made though...because I feel they deserve an answer.

I don't "loathe" this game...I loathe what I see being done to it -- before our very eyes. As I've said several times before...when it's being run right, this game is the best gambling game in the world. When it's being run wrong though, then it becomes a mere shadow of what it could be...and we all pay the price. It is the injustices in the game that I bash "inadvertently and relentlessly"...not the game itself.

What did I mean when I said that all winning gamblers are "bored" when they gamble?

I meant that -- when you are gambling strictly for the money, as winning players do -- gambling is not the exciting event that the weekend player experiences it to be. And I am not talking about just the horse player here. I am also talking about the poker player, who is tossing away hand after hand while he is waiting for the right opportunity to pounce...and the blackjack player -- who sits there, mechanically making his decisions, hour after hour.

"Winning play" in not exciting...because the winning player has gone to great lengths to remove as much of the emotion as he can out of his game. He has found out -- through painful trial and error -- that only when emotion is absent, can he make the cool-headed decisions that he needs to make in order to play the kind of game that the needs to play, to accomplish what he wants.

Playing every race is "fun"...and so is overbetting your bankroll -- looking for the thrill of getting all your money back in one shot. But it's not the type of fun that the winning player can indulge in. He has done this all before...and is well aware of the unpleasant side-effects associated with "fun" play.

Of course...I am talking about that rare bird who is able to take serious (according to him) money out of this game; not about the player who accumulates a bankroll one day so he could lose it the next -- and then calls himself a "winning player"...because he has made enough at the end of most years to cover the cost of his Racing Forms. Or the player who quits when he wins his first bet of the day...because logging a "win" in his record book is more important to him than what he can buy with it.

I have lived in the "serious" gambling world for over 30 years...and I have had to reinvent myself many times in order to finally get what I want out of it. And I've had to sacrifice...

I have traded in "gambling fun" for the pleasure of conversing with you at 4 o'clock in the morning...while others sleep...

And for the confusion in my 14-year old son's face...as he tries to explain to others what his dad does for a living...and how the two of us are able to spend as much time together as we do.

Freedom...THAT'S my kind of fun -- and THAT'S why I do what I do...the way I do it.

Many people have sacrificed their LIFE for "freedom". All I am asked to do is to endure a little boredom on the job...and a little good-natured ribbing from people like you.

It's a no-brainer...IMO.

[traynor]

An interesting point. One might consider that the reason more people do not devote their efforts to improving their skills is that they fear that very same freedom. That is, leaving the structured, ordered, regulated (and highly predictable) world of everyday life in exchange for "freedom" is a concept that induces deep anxiety rather than motivation.

In most cases, people are as they are because they choose to be that way.

[raybo]

I apologize for having "irritated" you, Cincy, and all I can say is that...had I known my posts were having this kind of an effect on you, I would have been a lot more careful with my words. Irritating folks is far from my intention here.

I would like to touch up on a few of the points that you've made though...because I feel they deserve an answer.

I don't "loathe" this game...I loathe what I see being done to it -- before our very eyes. As I've said several times before...when it's being run right, this game is the best gambling game in the world. When it's being run wrong though, then it becomes a mere shadow of what it could be...and we all pay the price. It is the injustices in the game that I bash "inadvertently and relentlessly"...not the game itself.

What did I mean when I said that all winning gamblers are "bored" when they gamble?

I meant that -- when you are gambling strictly for the money, as winning players do -- gambling is not the exciting event that the weekend player experiences it to be. And I am not talking about just the horse player here. I am also talking about the poker player, who is tossing away hand after hand while he is waiting for the right opportunity to pounce...and the blackjack player -- who sits there, mechanically making his decisions, hour after hour.

"Winning play" in not exciting...because the winning player has gone to great lengths to remove as much of the emotion as he can out of his game. He has found out -- through painful trial and error -- that only when emotion is absent, can he make the cool-headed decisions that he needs to make in order to play the kind of game that the needs to play, to accomplish what he wants.

Playing every race is "fun"...and so is overbetting your bankroll -- looking for the thrill of getting all your money back in one shot. But it's not the type of fun that the winning player can indulge in. He has done this all before...and is well aware of the unpleasant side-effects associated with "fun" play.

Of course...I am talking about that rare bird who is able to take serious (according to him) money out of this game; not about the player who accumulates a bankroll one day so he could lose it the next -- and then calls himself a "winning player"...because he has made enough at the end of most years to cover the cost of his Racing Forms. Or the player who quits when he wins his first bet of the day...because logging a "win" in his record book is more important to him than what he can buy with it.

I have lived in the "serious" gambling world for over 30 years...and I have had to reinvent myself many times in order to finally get what I want out of it. And I've had to sacrifice...

I have traded in "gambling fun" for the pleasure of conversing with you at 4 o'clock in the morning...while others sleep...

And for the confusion in my 14-year old son's face...as he tries to explain to others what his dad does for a living...and how the two of us are able to spend as much time together as we do.

Freedom...THAT'S my kind of fun -- and THAT'S why I do what I do...the way I do it.

Many people have sacrificed their LIFE for "freedom". All I am asked to do is to endure a little boredom on the job...and a little good-natured ribbing from people like you.

It's a no-brainer...IMO.

Well said, and true! Most people who work at regular jobs find that job boring and or un-enjoyable, but they do it, just the same, for the money to live on and maybe at some point attain some modicum of freedom to do what they want, when they want. Why should making a living at racing/gambling be any different? There are exceptions to everything, so yes, there are probably a few gamblers who make a good living while actually liking what they are doing, and not being bored to death. But, I suspect that number is trivial.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I apologize for having "irritated" you, Cincy, and all I can say is that...had I known my posts were having this kind of an effect on you, I would have been a lot more careful with my words. Irritating folks is far from my intention here.

I would like to touch up on a few of the points that you've made though...because I feel they deserve an answer.

I don't "loathe" this game...I loathe what I see being done to it -- before our very eyes. As I've said several times before...when it's being run right, this game is the best gambling game (#) in the world. When it's being run wrong though, then it becomes a mere shadow of what it could be...and we all pay the price. It is the injustices in the game that I bash "inadvertently and relentlessly"...not the game itself.

What did I mean when I said that all winning gamblers are "bored" when they gamble?

I meant that -- when you are gambling strictly for the money, as winning players do -- gambling is not the exciting event that the weekend player experiences it to be. And I am not talking about just the horse player here. I am also talking about the poker (#) player, who is tossing away hand after hand while he is waiting for the right opportunity to pounce...and the blackjack player -- who sits there, mechanically making his decisions, hour after hour.

"Winning play" in not exciting...because the winning player has gone to great lengths to remove as much of the emotion as he can out of his game. He has found out -- through painful trial and error -- that only when emotion is absent, can he make the cool-headed decisions that he needs to make in order to play the kind of game that the needs to play, to accomplish what he wants.

Playing every race is "fun"...and so is overbetting your bankroll -- looking for the thrill of getting all your money back in one shot. But it's not the type of fun that the winning player can indulge in. He has done this all before...and is well aware of the unpleasant side-effects associated with "fun" play.

Of course...I am talking about that rare bird who is able to take serious (according to him) money out of this game; not about the player who accumulates a bankroll one day so he could lose it the next -- and then calls himself a "winning player"...because he has made enough at the end of most years to cover the cost of his Racing Forms. Or the player who quits when he wins his first bet of the day...because logging a "win" in his record book is more important to him than what he can buy with it.

I have lived in the "serious" gambling world for over 30 years...and I have had to reinvent myself many times in order to finally get what I want out of it. And I've had to sacrifice...

I have traded in "gambling fun" for the pleasure of conversing with you at 4 o'clock in the morning...while others sleep...

And for the confusion in my 14-year old son's face...as he tries to explain to others what his dad does for a living...and how the two of us are able to spend as much time together as we do.

Freedom...THAT'S my kind of fun -- and THAT'S why I do what I do...the way I do it.

Many people have sacrificed their LIFE for "freedom". All I am asked to do is to endure a little boredom on the job...and a little good-natured ribbing from people like you.

It's a no-brainer...IMO.

What an excellent post Thask.Good stuff.I know it was some backhanded sarcasm but it does tear me apart,some of your comments.When you look up to somebody,as I do you,overanalysis at times comes with the territory I guess.I aspire to be the pro you are and at times when needed have done so.But not at all at your level.It does upset me to some extent when you take zero from this game.Another drop in the bucket.Another day of them running in circles.It's bet apathy.I can point that out can't I?I thought Saturday was a phenomenal day of racing albeit only moderately profitable.I think I'm lucky that pure fandom and pure bettordom can coexist in one soul without robbing each other!Some people who want to lose weight lose muscle and realize the end of their goal cost too much and is false glory.I'm looking to get to your status without losing my enthusiasm and passion.Same principle.I apologize if I came off too harsh.I think you're great and people I like I want to see happy.Natural instinct in me.

[raybo]

What an excellent post Thask.Good stuff.I know it was some backhanded sarcasm but it does tear me apart,some of your comments.When you look up to somebody,as I do you,overanalysis at times comes with the territory I guess.I aspire to be the pro you are and at times when needed have done so.But not at all at your level.It does upset me to some extent when you take zero from this game.Another drop in the bucket.Another day of them running in circles.It's bet apathy.I can point that out can't I?I thought Saturday was a phenomenal day of racing albeit only moderately profitable.I think I'm lucky that pure fandom and pure bettordom can coexist in one soul without robbing each other!Some people who want to lose weight lose muscle and realize the end of their goal cost too much and is false glory.I'm looking to get to your status without losing my enthusiasm and passion.Same principle.I apologize if I came off too harsh.I think you're great and people I like I want to see happy.Natural instinct in me.

Rod,

Thask didn't say he wasn't happy, he obviously is. Maybe once you reach the level he is at, betting full time and dependng on winning for a living, you'll understand what he/we mean. It is a supreme grind, at least it was for me. It caused me to lose any "fun" I ever had with racing, and that has never returned unfortunately.

I might add, I wouldn't make a good salesman working on straight commission either. Making money, whether it is selling things on commission, or playing the horses, is one thing, but depending on it for your only means of support is quite a different thing, all the fun quickly disappears, when you HAVE to win month in month out, or HAVE TO SELL a lot of product, to live.

[Robert Fischer]

You can enjoy the horse racing, you just have to be careful not to enjoy the action too much.

[magwell]

You can enjoy the horse racing, you just have to be careful not to enjoy the action too much. If it wasn't for the action, the game wouldnt be any fun for me....." fun is the best thing you can have".....IMHO.

[Robert Fischer]

If it wasn't for the action, the game wouldnt be any fun for me....." fun is the best thing you can have".....IMHO.
good motto :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

As a "discipline", betting on horses can be rewarding, even if you lose your bankroll.

Simply trying to improve, day after day - all while highly motivated. This can have a positive effect, and keep you mentally sharp.

[magwell]

As a "discipline", betting on horses can be rewarding, even if you lose your bankroll.

Simply trying to improve, day after day - all while highly motivated. This can have a positive effect, and keep you mentally sharp. Its a great game as long as you stay in your "comfort zone" .......:)

[dkithore]

Traynor,

You make a good point.
Freedom is a great prize desired by many but deserved by a few. Like Thask said, not everyone plays this game for the sake of achieving freedom. But I respect those who seek and achieve and have been willing to pay the price.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Rod,

Thask didn't say he wasn't happy, he obviously is. Maybe once you reach the level he is at, betting full time and dependng on winning for a living, you'll understand what he/we mean. It is a supreme grind, at least it was for me. It caused me to lose any "fun" I ever had with racing, and that has never returned unfortunately.

I might add, I wouldn't make a good salesman working on straight commission either. Making money, whether it is selling things on commission, or playing the horses, is one thing, but depending on it for your only means of support is quite a different thing, all the fun quickly disappears, when you HAVE to win month in month out, or HAVE TO SELL a lot of product, to live.

I'm projecting too much.I know.My ideal of the ultimate horseplayer is 50% Nietzsche,50% Pittsburgh Phil.An unapologetic iconoclast that does so in the service of life's values while at the same time has a middle finger up to those who think there is a collective sense of values we should all aspire to.I think what it comes down to is Thask has already proven himself in this game.I have not,not at a 30 year level.I still have that mean and nasty rebellious spirit echoing throughout my tempestuous soul.It's served me well up to this point.And I think it will translate into the werewithal that gets me to where I want to go.Just got my 2013 Turf Trainer guide in the mail today.I'm getting there slowly but surely!

[OCF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlkMR0_Lsg&feature=player_embedded

:lol: brilliant

[Strike The Gold]

Great question.
I was about 24 years old when I got introduced to the track. I was an Asst Mgr at a Taco Bell on LI and we worked alot of nights. One day the guys asked me to join them at the track (Joe Manzo, you out there?) I thought are you kidding me? I'm not a degenerate gambler! I went and I was hooked. I'm not a big bettor and have been playing off and on for about 30 years. For me, it's a hobby that is affaordable, requires that I use my brain, and I think the horses are beautiful. For years I thought picking winners was the answer...it is, but one also needs value and that is something I only realized in the last 10 years or so. I like the analysis and the learning (need to structure bets better) I tell people all the time when they look at me "funny" that it doesn't matter if you have $2 to win on a horse or $200. If your horse is in contention coming down the stretch, it's a great thrill - where else can you take $50 and have 4 hours of fun? It can be cheap entertainment as well - although sometimes we'd do the flats during the day and the trotters at night - not always cheap but fun. I'll never forget my older sister crying when I told her I went to Aqueduct on my day off :)