Another (Pletcher) one bites the dust

[cj]

And only survived one prep, so sad:

"Delhomme, the third-place finisher in the Grade 2 Remsen who was an uncharacteristic 11th in the Rebel, is off the Derby trail, trainer Todd Pletcher said Sunday.

Pletcher said arrangements are being made to have the horse physically evaluated at Rood and Riddle in Kentucky.

"There's nothing obvious at this point," Pletcher said."

[Wiley]

He can usually get a couple of preps out of them, guess not this time.
I was as wrong as wrong can be with this one on the Rebel. Horse looked excellent in warm ups, sat a perfect trip and had nothing when called on. Hard to believe he is that bad without some physical ailment but his conditioning also comes into question, training up to a tough race like that. Chart says he was unruly in saddling, I did not see that, guess he just wanted to go back to the barn for a nap.

Nice call by those saying he would not be cranked. The Rebel was one for the steady raced/conditioned horses with the top three all having many lines in their Form PP's.

[Striker]

Won't be the last obviously. I've got a feeling that good things are not in the future for Abraham in the Sunland Derby. But maybe he will win.

[classhandicapper]

displaced in Rebel & is off #kyderby (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23kyderby&src=hash) trail, says WinStar prez Elliott walden. Being evaluated at roodandriddle

[cj]

That Todd is just darn unlucky.

[Valuist]

The headline could've been: "Delhomme gets sacked".

[cj]

That Todd is just darn unlucky.

Wonder what will be wrong with Dreaming of Julia.

[wiffleball whizz]

The headline could've been: "Delhomme gets sacked".

Does anybody remember jake delholmes coming out party? I remember I was very young and had to have my father take me to the mall to buy my gf a Xmas present......driving to the mall he asks me who I like in the Dallas saints Christmas eve game it was around 1230 I tell him I love the saints....I'm only 17 or 18 at time but knew the prime time angle.....

So I get the present and then I beg him to bet me 20x new orleans ($100)....long story short saints blitzed Dallas by I Think 7 or 14...but it wasn't even that close!!!

Back to the topic at hand he got too many horses....I mean if I owned decent allowance horses I wouldn't want him training for me.....how much attention could my horse get when he has all the 2 and 3 year old stars

[cj]

Back to the topic at hand he got too many horses....I mean if I owned decent allowance horses I wouldn't want him training for me.....how much attention could my horse get when he has all the 2 and 3 year old stars

It really is amazing. I mean if champions were decided at the winter Gulfstream meet, he'd be the greatest trainer of all time. But he wins everything there, and not much else considering the stock he has. Then he'll win a bunch of 2yo races at Saratoga with horses never to be heard from again.

[wiffleball whizz]

It really is amazing. I mean if champions were decided at the winter Gulfstream meet, he'd be the greatest trainer of all time. But he wins everything there, and not much else considering the stock he has. Then he'll win a bunch of 2yo races at Saratoga with horses never to be heard from again.

Yes great point!!!! Where do all those stars go that he has....do they just vanish into thin air?!? You obviously have way more knowledge about flats then me but even a harness player can see this....

We should track every pletcher horse at the spa this year then on feb 1 of next year see where they are....

But know that u mention it so many horses he has u need to send out cadaver dogs to find some of them

[letswastemoney]

Where is Archwarrior? He just disappeared after all the hype for his maiden win.

[cordep17]

Where is Archwarrior? He just disappeared after all the hype for his maiden win.

No workouts listed on Equibase, and he hasn't raced in about 9 months.

Just for the heck of it, I looked him up on Facebook to see if his connections made a fan page.
Most recent status from June 7:
"Who is back! I'm Back!
Here is Dr. Copelan with Archwarrior before he left the farm" then a pick of him with bandages on all four legs.

[nijinski]

No workouts listed on Equibase, and he hasn't raced in about 9 months.

Just for the heck of it, I looked him up on Facebook to see if his connections made a fan page.
Most recent status from June 7:
"Who is back! I'm Back!
Here is Dr. Copelan with Archwarrior before he left the farm" then a pick of him with bandages on all four legs.

Those are just protective wraps on his legs . Big guy looks fabulous !

[cordep17]

Those are just protective wraps on his legs

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between bandages and protective wraps?

[nijinski]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between bandages and protective wraps?
What he's wearing looks like a thick boot covering his cannons from knee down to his fetlock and it looks thick . Front and back legs , so it looks like it's for protection from hurting his legs . Good to ship with too .
The bandages are for needed support and are wrapped snuggly and horses as we know well , can race in them .

[cordep17]

I should have looked more closely. I looked at the picture and reported back and didn't look at it again. It is clear that those aren't the kind of wraps that I'm used to seeing.

Thanks for the explanation. Can't wait to see the comeback, but I still can't seem to figure out what was wrong with him in the first place. Pletcher doesn't seem the type to just rest for the sake of resting.

[cj]

I should have looked more closely. I looked at the picture and reported back and didn't look at it again. It is clear that those aren't the kind of wraps that I'm used to seeing.

Thanks for the explanation. Can't wait to see the comeback, but I still can't seem to figure out what was wrong with him in the first place. Pletcher doesn't seem the type to just rest for the sake of resting.

Why would anybody look forward to a Pletcher horse coming off a long layoff? He has no history of being good at that. The guy doesn't race his horses very often when they are in training, and once they are out of training...I'll just say good luck with that.

[cordep17]

It probably could have been better worded, CJ. I basically said the same thing as you did about Todd in this situation. I only look forward to this horse's comeback from a fan's perspective. I was impressed with his first two goes and I thought we would be seeing a bit more of him than we did.

[Leparoux]

Then he'll win a bunch of 2yo races at Saratoga with horses never to be heard from again.
:ThmbUp:

Yet it seems like he gets the most talented and deepest crop (on paper) every year. I don't get it.

[magwell]

Where is Archwarrior? He just disappeared after all the hype for his maiden win.Word is he has a career ending Problem.......

[cj]

Word is he has a career ending Problem.......

Shocking. Can't wait to see the breeding commercials if true.

[magwell]

Shocking. Can't wait to see the breeding commercials if true. rumor might be a better word

[Striker]

It really is amazing. Then he'll win a bunch of 2yo races at Saratoga with horses never to be heard from again.
23 2yo wins last year at Saratoga with 22 different juveniles getting in the winners circle. Kauai Katie was the only repeat juvy winner, and I believe he started out pretty slow early on with 2yos at Saratoga like 1 for his first 9 or 10 entrants.

[cnollfan]

Why would anybody look forward to a Pletcher horse coming off a long layoff? He has no history of being good at that. The guy doesn't race his horses very often when they are in training (#), and once they are out of training...I'll just say good luck with that.

I look forward to betting against them. I have three on my bet-against watch list that seem to have disappeared -- anybody know the status of these horses?

Corail - last race I know of was 8/1/12 at Saratoga
Darwin - 10/6/12
Zaikov - Gulfstream 3/15/13

[Striker]

I look forward to betting against them. I have three on my bet-against watch list that seem to have disappeared -- anybody know the status of these horses?

Corail - last race I know of was 8/1/12 at Saratoga
Darwin - 10/6/12
Zaikov - Gulfstream 3/15/13
Darwin was transferred to Aidan O'Brien in February. Zaikov had a shin injury in late April.

[cnollfan]

Thanks!

[ten2oneormore]

Darwin just had his first race for Aiden O Brien today.He won in a 3 horse field by 2 lengths.


http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/members/index.cfm?CFID=82503213&CFTOKEN=48593976

[cnollfan]

Thanks, 10-1! Fortunately I don't have an easy way to wager on Irish races so I saved a few euros I would have lost shorting Darwin.

[Stillriledup]

Happy Birthday Todd! :ThmbUp:

[cj]

23 2yo wins last year at Saratoga with 22 different juveniles getting in the winners circle. Kauai Katie was the only repeat juvy winner, and I believe he started out pretty slow early on with 2yos at Saratoga like 1 for his first 9 or 10 entrants.

Kauai Katie scratched today, leaving Teen Pauline, another Saratoga grad. She ran rather poorly to say the least.

[the little guy]

Kauai Katie scratched today, leaving Teen Pauline, another Saratoga grad. She ran rather poorly to say the least.

Not that you said it, but Todd only had Teen Pauline this year. She broke her maiden, and bombed in the Spinaway, for Steve Asmussen.

[rastajenk]

Well, when he does ruin her, it can be said that you heard it here first.

[FantasticDan]

I look forward to betting against them. I have three on my bet-against watch list that seem to have disappeared -- anybody know the status of these horses?
Corail - last race I know of was 8/1/12 at Saratoga
Darwin - 10/6/12
Zaikov - Gulfstream 3/15/13Zaikov, an extremely talented colt by Distorted Humor out of Wait a While, ran again and won in Dec. 2013 after shin surgery. He was on the bench for all of 2014, and had resumed training this past Sept. Unfortunately, he sustained a fractured humerus while training yesterday at Belmont and was euthanized. :(

[Wiley]

This probably needs a thread of it's own, but here is an interesting article on horses taking a 'bad step' causing catastrophic breakdowns. I hope most trainers read it.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/88143/ky-necropsy-program-disproves-bad-step-myth

[DJofSD]

Just now saw this thread for the first time.

My initial thought: whatever troubles have befallen the horses in Todd's barn, isn't this the same black cloud that followed DWL around for years and years?

[cj]

Pretty amazing, to me at least, the Pletcher has a grand total of one horse over the age of two running in the Breeders' Cup.

[Tom]

BC needs to be moved to end of August - while he still something left. When I heard that was all he had, my first thought was......GOOD.

[classhandicapper]

Pretty amazing, to me at least, the Pletcher has a grand total of one horse over the age of two running in the Breeders' Cup.

I still think cranking horses way up early in their careers increases the probability of these kinds of problems.

Someone should do a study among the trainers that are known for training top horses.

1. % of time the trainer wins with first time starters.

2. average number of career starts for his horses overall, that won as FTS, that didn't win as FTS.

3. Average figure of FTS

You could always break it down a bunch of ways that may be better, but you can see the gist of what I am getting at with something basic like this.

[Tom]

I have heard of studies where 2yos who race more actually do better latter on. Maybe it Byk who talked about it?

I think the new trend of keeping them on the shelf then going for it all is the problem. Horse who used to race frequently were able to maintain condition and deliver A races when called on. Nowadays, a safe bet is eliminate anything that ran a very good race last time.

"One and done, two and through" is on a sticker on the edge of my monitor where I cannot miss it every time I do a race.

[DJofSD]

A certain amount of stress or concussion is needed for the growth plates in young horses to form properly. It has to do with the amount of calcium being deposited in order to form a good bone structure. It's a combination of diet and exercise which results in a horse which can stand the rigors of racing.

[classhandicapper]

I read similar articles about stress concussion and horses needing races, but there may be a difference between running some races and cranking them up so they go 44 and change and 109 and change to win at Saratoga by a block.