Offshore Wagering

[karlskorner]

www.thoroughbredtimes.com/commentary/commentary.asp#viewpoints

[trying2win]

How about a simple remedy for increasing betting handle, so as to increase revenues for purses as well? What's that you say? Getting all racetrack mangagements in the U.S. and Canada together and lower the takeouts on all types of bets. But then again, that would be too simple an idea, right? Due to poverty thinking, I suspect a fair amount of racetrack managements would say "That would never work". I think a lot of racetrack track executives have forgotten that old, wise advice ...YOU HAVE TO GIVE BEFORE YOU RECEIVE".

T2W

[Jaguar]

Dumbest idea so far this week. Where do they get these hare-brained schemes? The moron that proposed this losing proposition should go back to his basket-weaving class.

1. Americans bet on American tracks. If a book doesn't take American money, they will have no revenue at all.

2. Frank Stronach is struggling to rationalise the Thoroughbred game and to thereby eventually close the bullrings- for racing- and to create a network out of the handful of major tracks which will remain viable. All of his properties will be casinos, but 8 or 10 of them will be "racinos".

Face it, only the big tracks will still be around- and this shrinkage is already starting to effect the horse racing world.

3. Everyone who bets on horses off-shore already does so. There are no new horse players coming on-stream. New gamblers, yes, but not new horse players.

For a complete projection of track closings, see the excellent- and very depressing- NTRA study on the future of horse racing in America.

The bottom line is, business is business- and crazy schemes don't make sense, and they will never make money- or jobs- for anyone.

The guys who are mutuel clerks now at "Hawthorne Race Track" will shortly be parking lot attendants at "Hawthorne Casino".

It's the Iron Rule of economics: "Big Money Will Always Drive Out Small Money".

All The Best,

Jaguar

[kenwoodallpromos]

What's ahead for the Caliifornia racing fairs? / I thought it was mostly the mid sized tracks that were in trouble.

[ceejay]

The article also says

A national wagering company has been pitched from time to time, with a single hub handling all bets at all tracks and creating a national pool that would funnel takeout to the host track, as well as to tracks in the state where the bet originated. That is similar to how TVG works.

Such a system has several merits. A single national wagering company that maintains one Web site and one toll-free telephone number can be marketed far more economically and effectively than the present structure, where hundreds of individual tracks, off-track betting services, and telephone-account wagering systems in the U.S. compete for the same clientele.

Can you imagine the poor customer service/support if the on-line bettor has no choice? Fortuantely, I would think that would be in clear restraint of trade and a violatin of Anti-trust laws.

[takeout]

Originally posted by Jaguar

For a complete projection of track closings, see the excellent- and very depressing- NTRA study on the future of horse racing in America.


Where can I find that?

[Jaguar]

Takeout, it's in the DRF archives.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[Jaguar]

Ken, when these casino operations really get rolling- helped along by bankrupt State governments, the horses will start disappearing. (i.e. Maryland, California, etc.)

Take a photograph of your favorite race track- if you'd care to- and have it framed for your desk. That way you can enjoy golden memories of what used to be.

This year I think I'll sneak my movie camera into Belmont on a beautiful afternoon in May. That way, should the worst happen to my favorite place- whenever a nostalgic mood comes over me I'll que up the sound and picture, and enjoy!

Did you notice that when Delaware Park got the slots, nearby Garden State Raceway took a dive and alot of good Allowance horses left Florida, never to return>

In the world we live in- The Magic Land of horse racing- we are gradually having the rug pulled out from under us.

The Casinos are now the Big Boys on the block and the Big Boys are all about the Benjamins.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[trying2win]

Jaguar,

I'm not cynical about racetrack operations disappearing because of casinos being part of their operations. The naive people squandering their money away playing slot machines and believing they'e going to get rich in the long run, are of course inadvertently helping to augment horsemens' purses and adding to Provincial or State coffers. Nothing wrong of course, if you enjoy playing the slots in the short term for entertainment and are smart enough to quit playing for the day while you're ahead of game. I don't play the slots myself, because I know it's a fixed-percentage game and you can't win at them in the long run.

As you've probably noticed, if you've read some of my other posts, I am cynical about the way a lot of unenlighted racetrack executives think they know how to operate a racetrack successfully. Some of these dumbbell racetrack executives would do well, to read some of the posts here on how to operate a racetrack properly. Some of the PA members' ideas on how to operate a racetrack, are a lot more intelligent than the gibberish usually put forth by a lot of racetrack management types.

I've only seen a handful of good ideas put forth by these racetrack honchos in the last few years. They include the commitment to service by the Del Mar management....the lowered takeout at Sam Houston Race Park to 12% for win 3 wagers, the lowered takeout to 14% on straight wagers by the NYRA, and Northlands Park for eliminating parking and admission fees. They're the only four racetracks that I can think of, that have done anything worthwhile to reduce costs for us raceplayers, or increased service to a noticeable degree. If I've overlooked any racetrack that deserves praise also, please correct me.

Thanks,

T2W

[Derek2U]

lets face it ,,, 4 action betting its basketball first ... but Racing
rates High certainly NOT baseball ... but racing industry MISSED
the bestmarketing srategy ... ITS A BRAINY GAMBLE ... its Not
Slots (which me & Sol love) more like BlackJack then Craps ...
so WHY NOT go after the puzzle solvers & stop appealing to
them stabbers. Hey sure luck is there, but lets see how many
RaceNerds there are?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Hawthore and National Jockey Club(Formerly Sportman's Park) have a great ontrack rewards program - after acheiving point totals, essentially 4% returned for betting the live races, 2% on the simulcasts. Makes the live WPS pools 17% - 4% = 13% for ontrack players using their card (in contrast to IL OTB's where 17% + 2.5% IL Surcharge = 19.5% takout). Bonus points awarded on many occasions, like when the Bears cover the spread, when Carolina the underdog covered the spread in the Super Bowl, etc. Free handicapping contests nearly every weekend that build to end of month final rounds that give and extra $2,500 to the fans (both Saturdays and Sundays). :)

For those who do want more info on the Hawthorne Rewards Program, see www.hawthorneracecourse.com

[Jaguar]

Trying2win, I don't want to belabor the point, so I will try to be as brief as possible:

1. Race tracks earn 4% on the owner's investment.

2. Casinos earn 12%.

3. Slots are brought in and soon so many folks are coming to play the machines that there isn't enough parking space. Management gets rid of the horses and paves over the racing oval in order to make more parking for slot patrons.

Result, Maryland- with horse players standing around saying "What the hell happened?" (Same phenomenon is about to occur in California).

Apparently many horse bettors in this nation are soon going to be looking for a new hobby.

When you mention slots "helping" horse tracks, remember that slots are a double-edged sword. Soon the slots grow to take over the joint.

Frank Stronach is a very smart and a very successful man. He trying to build a gambling empire by wiring American and Canadian gambling interests together in a giant network.

If political pressure forces him to keep 8 or 10 horse tracks open, I'm sure he won't care because by then they will be Racinos.

Whereas, if he gets his way, most of his properties will eventually be made into Casinos. At those venues horse racing will be just a memory.

It's all about the Benjamins.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[trying2win]

Jaguar,

Very interesting post you had with the RACINOS title. I neglected to mention, that Northlands Park is not privately owned like many racetracks in the U.S. or Canada. Instead, it is (allegedly) a non-profit organzation, with the racetrack operations being only one part of this organization. Northlands Park also introduced slot machines several years ago. I'm assuming because of the slots, that is why they probably eliminated the parking and admission fees.

T2W

[trying2win]

Steve'Statman',

Thanks for the info about Hawthorne Park doing something for the customers. It seems to be a rarity these days.

I enjoy playing the thoroughbred races at Hawthorne Park. I see they're starting their winter/spring meet on Fri. Feb. 27/04. Do most of the horses that finished the last Hawthorne meet at the beginning of last month, take the time off? Or, do some of them continue to race at some other tracks, only to return for the opening of the Hawthorne meet on Feb. 27? I'm just curious.

If most of the horses stationed at Hawthorne do take a couple of months off, I'd rather wait while most of them have a start or two, before betting them again.

Thanks,

T2W

[kenwoodallpromos]

I believe the California Racing (County) Fairs tracks are public also! . Maybe video machines hooked up to all USA tbred, quarter, and harness tracks could could have a slot for cash and the player plays any track any time. Enough action then? The screen would show minutes to post and bet and track for upcoming races. My slots-playing wife might even bet then!

[Steve 'StatMan']

T2W,

About half go to FG, OP, TAM and maybe 1 or 2 to GP, and some to the minors. The other half stay home, with some working out.

I've actually done very well in the first couple of weeks of the meet. With good speed figures and Trainer Stats from the Spring Meets, I get a good idea of who is ready and who is not, and whose shippers are ready or not, and how likely. Combined with the speed figures they run when they do run fast, and I've usually found it very formful, and have some of my best results with winning streaks. Early speed is very important too - it could be the track, or it could be that they just naturally like to run, so they are ready, or at least more ready than the others.

For those who can get there regularly, HAW's program is one great deal. 10,000 points to get the $200 Voucher. 2 points per $1 bet on a live race, 1 point on the simulcasts. If the Bears covered the point spread at least 8 times this year, so those who made at least 1 wager with their card on game day could have earned up to 2,000 points, regardless of bet size. (That's like earning $5 each time the Bears covered!). Definetly makes it worth the drive to HAW, esp. on days the Bears play!

Points carry over throughout the year. Those 2 vouchers I got last year sure came in handy! :D

[trying2win]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
[B]T2W,

About half go to FG, OP, TAM and maybe 1 or 2 to GP, and some to the minors. The other half stay home, with some working out.


STEVE,

Thanks a million for the info regarding the horses at Hawthorne Park. I appreciate it. Those are some good things to know about.

T2W

[LOU M.]

Having watched most of the spring meet at Haw. I'm curious if you agree that the first few weeks the horses that won were all E's mostly because they had been racing elsewhere and they were legged up. The horses returning to the races after 2 1/2 month layoff were just not in shape, consequently any horse getting a jump on the field was an easy winner as all the returnees faded do to being out of condition.Still there was an extreme front bias exacerbated by the above facts because after a few weeks E's were still winning but they were the horses who had finally got some races under their belts.

Good luck this spring. You and Scott do a great job at Haw.
Lou M.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Thanks Lou! Stop by and see Scott and me in the Handicapping Center!

Originally posted by LOU M.
Having watched most of the spring meet at Haw. I'm curious if you agree that the first few weeks the horses that won were all E's mostly because they had been racing elsewhere and they were legged up. The horses returning to the races after 2 1/2 month layoff were just not in shape, consequently any horse getting a jump on the field was an easy winner as all the returnees faded do to being out of condition.Still there was an extreme front bias exacerbated by the above facts because after a few weeks E's were still winning but they were the horses who had finally got some races under their belts.

Hawthorne's typical bias, when there is one, is usually toward speed. But I still really do agree with your statment - the ones that are ready to run early in the meet will end up in front, and many that aren't ready will not be able to lead, or will fade when they are on/near it. So it may not be good to automatically assume the track was truly biased toward speed without doing further analysis. Sometimes it obviously is, and sometimes it just seems it is, but the nature of the competitors is shaping it (ready horses, heavy favorites, lone speeds, etc.).

Still, I'll suggest leaning toward speed, and if there really is a bias, then at least you should be with it, and still have a good fighting chance. (Wish I had stats to back all that up, sorry guys).

I actually have a harder time after the first 3 weeks dealing with inconsistent improvements. So usually after a great 2-3 weeks, I tend to struggle for the next 3 or so weeks as some repeat, others improve and some still don't improve. Go figure?
I'm sort of the opposite of many folks at this time of year.