Switching Leads In The Lane...Important or not?

[PhantomOnTour]

I ask this because of a losing bet ( :D ) on Chasing Moonlight in the 5th at Aqu today.
It marked the 2nd consecutive race that he failed to switch in the lane.
The previous two starts he switched fine in upper stretch. Junior Alvarado threw one cross at him in upper stretch and then right hand whipped the rest of he way home while his mount hung and finished 3rd....looked like he was gonna go right on by.
I thought Junior would have thrown a cross or tried to shake him up and get him to switch, but he didn't.

Does this matter to you?
I know some really good horses never (or frequently didn't) switch leads...Affirmed maybe?
Are there horses who don't switch entering the backstretch in two turn races?

Sorry for all the questions, but i always followed the notion that they switch to ward off fatigue, for lack of a better term.

[VeryOldMan]

Have only one data point - watched a race where a horse tragically broke down and a friend who is a lifelong "horse person" noted that the horse never switched leads. She thought it was evidence of a pre-existing leg problem. It was subsequently revealed that the horse indeed had exactly the problem she thought. Others on this board likely have more evidence, so I'll defer to the collective wisdom.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Believe it or not!!...Thats where lots of your breakdowns happen when a horse switches his leads,Old warriors lots of times dont and wont switch their leads no matter how hard the jocks try,Its a way they protect themselves if they do hurt on the other lead.Yes a horse will switch when he is tired.Some horses wont change because they are lazy or afraid of jumping over to the other lead.Lots of times when your horse in on the lead and running easy,He wont switch!..Lots of times your horse will be running along side head and head and if did switch ,He may have won.

[Not4Love]

IMO I see it as a horse with possible soundness issues. It's not always the case but most likely. Alydar never switched so ...

[Wiley]

I know some really good horses never (or frequently didn't) switch leads...Affirmed maybe?
.
Think it was actually Alydar that would not switch leads, maybe a different TC outcome if he would/could have, definitely in the Belmont at least.

Horses seem to be able to extend themselves better on the correct lead, also get that burst of speed on the switch. Examples, that last race on Sunday at SA, the longshot 10, Joy rode, she got a lot of grief here on the loss, was on the wrong lead through the stretch probably cost her the decision, jockeys can do some things but think training, soundness and fatigue are probably the most important elements.

One of the best runners of all time would not change leads, Dubai Millenium.
McShell I am sure has more on the training part of it.

[BIG49010]

Never wanted to claim one that wouldn't switch, but there are exceptions to the rules of course.

I remember a horse the Red Rolls, that the only time he would switch was if Earlie Fires ( Who could be very aggressive) started working on him in the turn, but when he switched he was tough otherwise he usually got nailed at the wire.

[VeryOldMan]

Believe it or not!!...Thats where lots of your breakdowns happen when a horse switches his leads

Agreed - my bad for not mentioning that the breakdown we saw was when the horse tried to switch leads. Had been favoring the good leg for a reason, alas.

[Stillriledup]

I ask this because of a losing bet ( :D ) on Chasing Moonlight in the 5th at Aqu today.
It marked the 2nd consecutive race that he failed to switch in the lane.
The previous two starts he switched fine in upper stretch. Junior Alvarado threw one cross at him in upper stretch and then right hand whipped the rest of he way home while his mount hung and finished 3rd....looked like he was gonna go right on by.
I thought Junior would have thrown a cross or tried to shake him up and get him to switch, but he didn't.

Does this matter to you?
I know some really good horses never (or frequently didn't) switch leads...Affirmed maybe?
Are there horses who don't switch entering the backstretch in two turn races?

Sorry for all the questions, but i always followed the notion that they switch to ward off fatigue, for lack of a better term.

I think that jocks might be hesitant to throw the crosses at mentally fragile horses...this particular horse has just shown to not fight really hard, he had a loose lead a few lines down and should have won, or at least been 2nd and he blew it. Maybe he has a breathing problem and can't 'finish' off a race and that's why the jock wasnt aggressively trying to get him to switch leads.

It looked like there was no way he was going to get beat, he was trained by a supertrainer, well bred, looks nice with a nice stride and just refused to pass. That was a tough beat, there was a point in the lane when you had to be counting your money.

To your other question, the answer is yes, quite often, horses will not switch leads when they enter the backstretch, especially the inexperienced ones...but i've found what happens more is horses will switch on the backstretch and then switch properly into the turn and then just never switch back.

Alydar was a historic great horse who rarely (if ever) switched leads. One of his famous sons, Strike the Gold, didnt switch leads in the Derby until he was blowing by, he switched with about 70 yards left in the race i believe and really seemed to kick into another gear at the end.

I think if you look at the highest levels of the game, you rarely find a horse who is 'great' who is hanging on the wrong lead and still winning a ton of races. Most great horses switch leads on cue, in order to beat top level competition, you have to do everything right.

[classhandicapper]

I don't have any stats on it, but when you see horses "come again" it's sometimes right after a lead switch. All else being equal, I can't imagine it not being an advantage to switch leads when appropriate.

If you want to try to find betting value in it, you should probably watch replays and focus on each of the top few finishers. Mark down whether they switched or not. You'll eventually accumulate a list where you've seen the same horse multiple times. There might be some value in knowing which horses that typically switch didn't in their most recent start or vice versa.

[DJofSD]

If you want to try to find betting value in it, you should probably watch replays and focus on each of the top few finishers. Mark down whether they switched or not. You'll eventually accumulate a list where you've seen the same horse multiple times. There might be some value in knowing which horses that typically switch didn't in their most recent start or vice versa.
And watch the head on view not just the pan.

[Valuist]

Never wanted to claim one that wouldn't switch, but there are exceptions to the rules of course.

I remember a horse the Red Rolls, that the only time he would switch was if Earlie Fires ( Who could be very aggressive) started working on him in the turn, but when he switched he was tough otherwise he usually got nailed at the wire.

I remember that horse. Must've been around 1987-1988. What I remember is the horse being a heavy chalk and when he got passed in the stretch Fires smacked him across the face with the whip.

[Hosshead]

Years ago at Santa Anita I remember talking to a jock (K.D.) about how to get a horse to switch leads, and he told me that the trick is in slightly shifting weight at just the right moment in the stride.

[lamboguy]

after being around horses for over 40 years now, the most important factor that i have ever seen in predicting how a horse will run is by the way the horse attacks his feed tub after he works. he can't leave one speck of food.

i used to do that every single day of the week when i hung out at race tracks. if the horse worked good and with other good horses, i would follow the horse back to the barn and watch him eat up. this form of handicapping out does any other method known to man. today the problem with it is that horses now train on many different tracks on the same days and i love watching the horses for 2 works so i can compare them. i learned this from the very best of all time, Woody Stevens. every morning for years, i showed up in his barn with coffee and plenty of donut's.

[PaceAdvantage]

What happens when half the field (or more) eats up after their last work?

[nijinski]

:lol: What happens when half the field (or more) eats up after their last work?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You made me spill, my Hot Chocolate !

[PhantomOnTour]

I ask this because of a losing bet ( :D ) on Chasing Moonlight in the 5th at Aqu today.

Well, guess who's back Friday at Aqu in R1, and not surprisingly with a jock switch ?

[MightBeSosa]

3x in a row Awesome Vision doesn't switch, and he still closes like a freight train.

[Stillriledup]

Well, guess who's back Friday at Aqu in R1, and not surprisingly with a jock switch ?

The one time DC rode him on Feb 7th, he put in his lowest dirt beyer on his PPs and threw in a clunker. Not sure what that means, but if he's even money, i'd pass.

[PhantomOnTour]

Switched leads easily under Cohen and cruised on the class drop at 3-4 odds.
Realistically, he was dropping to his proper level imo

Last time was the time to bet him at 7-2 in a four horse field...thought he was going by them easily that day.

[Stillriledup]

Switched leads easily under Cohen and cruised on the class drop at 3-4 odds.
Realistically, he was dropping to his proper level imo

Got set up by a nice duel too.

Track looks "different" today than yesterday's ..LOOKS "dusty" for lack of a better word. Speed was holding yesterday, hopefully today is more fair.

[Stillriledup]

Switched leads easily under Cohen and cruised on the class drop at 3-4 odds.
Realistically, he was dropping to his proper level imo

Dont you just love seeing a horse crush the field the week after you need him for your lungs? :(

[PhantomOnTour]

Dont you just love seeing a horse crush the field the week after you need him for your lungs? :(
No kiddin'...that last race hurt as my only play that day was a big win bet.
7-2 was good value...oh well, it's a tough game

[Stillriledup]

POT, Chasing Moonlight entered on March 29th at Big A. He's 7-5 ML and from my first glance, he ought to be able to win again. His main competition is the Parx horse imo. The Persaud horse hasnt raced since feb 18th and since Persaud runs every horse in his barn every 4 days, this one missing since Feb 18 is a huge red flag for me. Seems like CM is the only real 'closer' in this race, hopefully he can sit behind a bunch of duelers and pick them all up.

(of course, if you bet him, he'll probably get a great trip, fail to switch leads and lose by two necks at the wire :D )

[chadk66]

As a former trainer, switching leads is extremely important. The biggest reason is that horses tire on their leads. If a horse doesn't switch leads down the lane and then finally does, he'll move up three to four lengths just from doing that. Switching leads is something I watch for every single race. If you do that you'll see that a horse on the wrong lead will hang in the stretch and if they finally do switch they re-fire again. Alot of horses will not switch until they get so tired they have to. That's a little dangerous for the horse.

[Hosshead]

A horse that is good at changing leads is also a good bet when switching to a bullring track because they have to change leads more times during a race. For example in S. Calif when they go to Pomona.

[PhantomOnTour]

Chasing Moonlight wins easily today at overlaid odds...and didn't switch leads in the lane.
That 3-5 chalk was a total sucker bet...he had just run the gamut of Pletcher, Rudy Rod, Jacobson and Ness...what could possibly be left of this horse? :D
To top it off - he was vanned off last time....now 3-5 odds !?

[iceknight]

Chasing Moonlight wins easily today at overlaid odds...and didn't switch leads in the lane.
That 3-5 chalk was a total sucker bet...he had just run the gamut of Pletcher, Rudy Rod, Jacobson and Ness...what could possibly be left of this horse? :D
To top it off - he was vanned off last time....now 3-5 odds !? what was the backstretch "buzz" on this?

[Stillriledup]

Chasing Moonlight wins easily today at overlaid odds...and didn't switch leads in the lane.
That 3-5 chalk was a total sucker bet...he had just run the gamut of Pletcher, Rudy Rod, Jacobson and Ness...what could possibly be left of this horse? :D
To top it off - he was vanned off last time....now 3-5 odds !?

I had an interesting note on him last time, i thought he raced well but didnt seem to be effective on the front end, i was thinking he might be better covered and you're right, you can't take 3-5 on a van off dropper like that...sometimes van offs win, but you can't eat 3-5 on them.

[holmmd]

Always wondered - should a horse be on its right or left lead in the stretch? Always thought it was right lead but vast majority of horses in replays I watch are on left. Is it any different for sprint vs route (i.e. Is it still important to switch in a sprint given shorter trip)?

[chadk66]

Always wondered - should a horse be on its right or left lead in the stretch? Always thought it was right lead but vast majority of horses in replays I watch are on left. Is it any different for sprint vs route (i.e. Is it still important to switch in a sprint given shorter trip)?right lead on the straights, left lead in the turns.

[holmmd]

That's what I thought but I watch so many sprints and almost all of the horses are on their left lead at the wire. Was beginning to doubt myself.

[chadk66]

That's what I thought but I watch so many sprints and almost all of the horses are on their left lead at the wire. Was beginning to doubt myself.horses don't switch leads for numerous reasons. with younger horses it's often times still being green or weren't trained properly to switch leads. Sometimes two year olds just have their minds wander too much in early races to remember to switch leads. most horses grow out of it. with older horses it's often times an issue with soreness.