What thoroughbred tracks have produced your best results?

[trying2win]

If anyone cares to list answers to the following questions, it would be interesting to compare notes:

A. What thoroughbred tracks that you've played on a regular basis this year, have produced your best results...then on down to your worst results?

B. Will you be crossing certain tracks off your list, because they seem to be a lost cause?

C. Have you put some tracks on the back burner because of one reason or another, but plan to go back betting them at a later date?

D. Do you plan to resume betting some tracks when their meet starts later on in the year?

E. Are you testing out some new tracks that seem to have some possibilities?

F. What do you think's the maximum amount of thoroughbred tracks that you can handle playing on a regular basis?

--Here's a brief summary of my scenario so far this year. I've listed some tracks with plus or minus ratings, according to the results obtained with my bets:

1. Turf Paradise + + +
----Have obtained the best results by far here, compared to any other track I've played on a regular basis...maybe not win percentage-wise, but some of the good win prices have really helped the bottom line. The ironical thing is, Turf Paradise has one of the highest takeouts on win betting in the U.S. at 20%, yet I've gotten the best results at this track. Try and figure that one out!

2. Turfway Park +
---Started out real well there the first week or two, but have slipped lately. I still like betting there though.

3. Delta Downs -
--Doing just so-so thus far, but haven't given up yet.

4. Mountaineer Park -
---I've had the odd good payoff during their abbreviated racing schedule, but not enough to keep my interest there right now.
I've put this track on hold for awhile, until the horses have had some more recent starts in their past performances.

5. Santa Anita - - - -
----The worst results by far! I can only remember cashing about 2 or 3 tickets there this year. Have quit playing Santa Anita several times already, for a few days here and there. SA' s back on my DON'T PLAY THIS TRACK list again. I don't know what it is about this place, but I just can't seem to win a bet there very often. Something strange going on!

--Have recently tried playing the races at Sam Houston and The Fairgrounds. Had some good days at these two tracks and some not-so-good days. Will keep trying for awhile yet, because these two tracks seem to have some possibilities.

--My maximum number of thoroughbred tracks that I can handle playing on a regular basis, is about five. So, when some of my other favorite thoroughbred tracks start their meets later in the year, I'll have to cross off some of the less productive ones on my betting list.

T2W

[shanta]

here are 3 tracks that i would need some kinda "divine intervention" to win at :eek: Fair Grounds,Penn National, and Delta Downs. Have played at least 5 or 6 cards at each and basically remain clueless. P-A-S-S!!!!!!

[Buddha]

AQU +50.50
AUSTRALIA +20.75
CRC -2.00
DED -4.00
FG -6.00
HAW -9.00
MNR +63.10
PEN +4.60
SA -50.00


The SA is dissappointing, but that was at the very beginning of the year before I stopped playing because I decided to join the boycott.

As can be noticed, MNR, AQU, and AUSTRALIAN racing are my best.

Now the answers to your questions :)

A: Tracks on a regular basis are HOL, AQU, MNR. The other tracks are here and there. Hit and miss.

B: HAW as I appeared to have no handle on it, other than that, I may try races other places for a while, until I feel I have no shot at the track.

C: NO

D: HOL, and all NYRA tracks.

E: PHA seems to possibly hold potential for me. Havent bet any real money yet, but the glancing results have been good looking so far.

F: 1,000,000 because I am superman :) In all actuality, I would think maybe 3 at a time I could focus on regularly and seriously. I feel with myself, more than that and I probably wouldnt be able to focus on one track well enough.

[Valuist]

The toughest track for me is Del Mar. I haven't placed a bet there in over 2 years.

[so.cal.fan]

In order:
1. Hollywood Spring/Summer meet.
2. Del Mar
3. Oak Tree
4.Fairplex
5. Hollywood Fall
6. Santa Anita.

[ranchwest]

Santa Anita has been one of my best. Also, MNR, but I can't play those two the same way at all, they're completely different. I seem to do well at PHA when the weather warms.

NYRA is always my worst. I'm clueless. I haven't done too well at LS.

Mediocre are FG, HOU and OP.

[so.cal.fan]

Ranch!

Give us some help!

[SAL]

Wow, SA is by far my best track, followed by NYRA. I can't pick a winner to save my life at TUP, and CRC is a close second. I don't play those tracks at all. I do OK at GP though.

[cj]

A. NYRA and SoCal by far my best results, particularly Aqueduct and Hollywood. I do well in Maryland and at Calder also.

B. I have figured out the places I do poorly at, so I don't play them anymore. These include Gulfstream (big races excluded), Keeneland, Delaware, and Hawthorne.

C. Arlington...I seem to do well there, and have hit some real monster payoffs, but there is only so much time in a day. Also, I was going to start focusing on night tracks, ala the Big M, Mnr, and Hou, but my move to Belgium has postponed that since they run in the middle of the night here. I also used to do very well at NoCal, but the Magna ban has ended that.

D. None in particular

E. I'll look over any track that is running when I have free time, but I tread VERY lightly until I have a good feeling for the place.

F. I can handle playing no more than two racecards at the same time.

[Show Me the Wire]

Myanswer is in different form because that is the wa I am. I never play winterized tracks too many unknown bias changes. Einterized tracks I stay away from after the first freeze and subsewuent quantitiies of water added through rain or snow in my are are TWP and Hawthorne.

If you listened to Rhonda Collins the a couple of nights ago you would have heard how the inside gets too mushy and soft earlier on during the teilight cards, then then the inside freezes and is the place to be and how the crown of the track may become crusty or strange looking, which may sopke the speed horses starting from gates 4,5, and 6.

Hawthorne has similiar problems, ice froms under the surface and it all of a sudden is a concrete highway (see Coach Jimmy Lee). or mush after a thaw,or prior to any moisture at the begininng of the meet more of a plowed farm field.

Wagering on these types of tracks is guessing to the extreme.

At Other tracks I will not play certain specific distance races as the track configuration effects the outcome more than the condition of the horses.

The type of track I like to play is the one that cards the type of races I do the best at with the least changing surface.

For example if I am not comfortable handicapping young lightly horses trying a two turn mile after competing in a 5 1/2 sprint, I would not make GP my choice of tracks. GP is a meet that cater to young developing horses and so does Keeneland.

Therefore, my suggestion is determine the type of horse you are comfortable handicapping, the surface, understand track configuration and find the the track that fits your strengths.

I know this post is not specific at to what I do, but what I do is not necessaarily what you should do.

Regards.
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[trying2win]

Very interesting comments here so far.

SHANTA: From past experience, I've also put Penn National on my personal PASS list, as well as Arlington and Suffolk Downs (Oh! Oh!...Suff, Rocajack and a few other PA members may admonish me for putting SD on this list... LOL).

BUDDHA: That's interesting that you're getting good results on the Australian races. I've downloaded some of those free past performance programs that they sometimes offer at the BRISNET.COM site, for Tuesday racing at some Australian tracks. I don't know how a person can handicap those Australian races. What I mean is, sometimes you have fields of 16 to 19 horses in a race. I noticed in these large fields, that it looks like they have a maximum of 15 betting entries, and the rest are field horses. Then they have such skimpy past performance lines. It's a mystery to me, how a handicapper can make money betting these Aussie races. I know I could never get serious betting them. Mountaineer Park's going well for you. Good show. Helps to be right there at the local scene, right?

VALUIST: I see Del Mar's not one of your favorite tracks. Oh well, there's plenty of other ones.

SO CAL FAN: Needless to say, you'll be looking forward to the Hollywood Spring/Summer Meet. I noticed Santa Anita's as the bottom of your list. I can empathize with your results there.

RANCHWEST: You're doing well at Santa Anita. I don't know how you do it? Congratulations nonetheless.

SAL: Another PA member doing well at Santa Anita. Good going! Yet, you're struggling at Turf Paradise. Talk about a contrast between your results at these two tracks and mine!

CJ: Congratulations on your success at Southern California tracks. You must be doing something right if you can make money betting Santa Anita. I sure can't figure out that track. More contrasts. You do well at Arlington. Not me. As for Hawthorne, I've obtained some good results playing that track.
Looks like you've struggled at that place though.

SHOWMETHEWIRE: Thanks for the reminders about knowing your strengths and weaknesses as a handicapper. I think it's a good idea to review how a bettor has been doing results-wise in several handicapping categories, and perhaps do some fine-tuning here and there.

I was just reviewing a TRACK CLASS LEVEL CHART that I got from Barry Burkan once (remember him?). It lists tracks by class levels 1 through 7 (The highest class tracks being the lowest numbers). Just reviewing, I've gotten my worst results betting the top class levels of 1 and 2. The best results I've obtained, are playing tracks on levels 3 through 6. As for bottom level 7 tracks, I can't conclude much there, because I don't play the great majority of the cheap tracks listed there. Hmmm...I think the message is clear for me...DON'T PLAY THE TOP CLASS TRACKS...i.e. levels 1 and 2. Of course, this is just my own experience. Other PA members seem to be enjoying their best success at the top class level tracks. I would say, that this is just another aspect of knowing your strengths and weaknesses.

T2W

[Buddha]

Originally posted by trying2win

BUDDHA: That's interesting that you're getting good results on the Australian races. I've downloaded some of those free past performance programs that they sometimes offer at the BRISNET.COM site, for Tuesday racing at some Australian tracks. I don't know how a person can handicap those Australian races. What I mean is, sometimes you have fields of 16 to 19 horses in a race. I noticed in these large fields, that it looks like they have a maximum of 15 betting entries, and the rest are field horses. Then they have such skimpy past performance lines. It's a mystery to me, how a handicapper can make money betting these Aussie races. I know I could never get serious betting them. Mountaineer Park's going well for you. Good show. Helps to be right there at the local scene, right?



Yea, Australian racing has either 15 or 16 betting interests, and the field. I don't play it often, and am only ahead this year because of one nice exacta :) Most of my Aussie handicapping is class handicapping, and it takes some getting used to. It sure isnt the same as American racing. I am not serious about it as I only play occasionally, but like to watch them even if I don't play.

Mountaineer has been going good so far, and I hope it can continue today because I am heading to the track right now to go watch the races, and hopefully get a few winners home. It is definitely a plus working there and being there almost every race night to watch, or watching online, and just knowing about the racing there. It always helps.

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Ranch!

Give us some help!

With those short fields, you don't get much pace scenario, so it seems to me the jocks are patient. That provides an opportunity for the fit horses to win fairly often. I sift through the PP's looking for signs of fitness.

I don't get too patient on the price end, though. SA is not a place to find a large diet of 10/1's. I just take what I can get when I have confidence. Sometimes that's a price, but far more often it is on the low end.

[sjk]

Track I've had the best luck at the past year or so:

Del
Pha
Beu
Rd
WO
Prm
Mnr
Lrl

Where I've done poorly:

CD
Pen
Pim
Elp
Hoo
Crc

I usually play 6-8 tracks or whatever is available in my time zone. Anything over 10 (usually summer only) can get pretty hectic and I miss some bets. I am still kicking myself over missing the 8th at OP the other day. (I think I posted something in frustration at the time.)

[Zaf]

So far this year TUP , GG and BEU have been the kindest to me. Despite the short fields I have found good overlays at GG. My highest win % and highest average mutuel has been at TUP.

GP, PENand HOU have also treated me reasonably well.


AQU, SA, FG, PHA , MNR, CT, DED have been quite difficult and I am not doing well at these venues.

I guess I should cut down the number of tracks I am playing :eek:

ZAFONIC

[Tom]

I love:
Tam (turf routes especially)
DelMar turf routes (unbelievable win percent there)
Penn
Del
FL
CT

I don't remeber if I ever cashed a ticket at SA!
I hate GP, AQU, Bel.

[so.cal.fan]

Ranch!
You are so right! I have been recording key races at the current SA meet and have been amazed at the number of repeaters and especially maiden winners that come right back and repeat.
My friends say it is because the maiden ranks are weak, this may be true, but you make an excellent point about the short fields and the jocks, I have to think your scenario is more accurate.
Thanks for sharing, now how do I get those 10/1 shots at Lone Star? LOL

[trying2win]

By my last count in this thread, Santa Anita is the most frequent name mentioned for a track in the poor results column. I can't say I'm really surprised.

T2W

[Zaf]

I used to do very well there, I do not know what happened :confused: ?

ZAFONIC

[kenwoodallpromos]

I like SA's fast turf. / CRC qorst. / Actually, I find the handicapping easier the first week at many meets. After that I guess they adjust the tracks' surfaces but I do OK as long as can match running style to surface!

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan

Thanks for sharing, now how do I get those 10/1 shots at Lone Star? LOL

So far, darts have been the most effective for me.

[Enigma]

BEST:
Belmont
Aqueduct
Oaklawn
Calder
Churchill

WORST:
Laurel
Pimlico
Santa Anita
Fairgrounds
Lone Star

On a daily basis I play only two tracks, at the moment they are Aqueduct & Oaklawn...I average about 8 plays per day. As an example, today I have 5 selections at Aqueduct and 3 at Oaklawn.
Wagering $50 to win on each is more than enough daily action for me.

[OTM Al]

Best

Belmont
Aqueduct (regular track)


Worst

Santa Anita
Aqueduct Inner
Any Turf course

[so.cal.fan]

Our favorite monkey comments:


<I don't remeber if I ever cashed a ticket at SA!>


Gee, Tom, I was just wondering if I'll ever cash another ticket there, ever?????????
I don't think I'm alone either.

[cj]

Originally posted by Tom


...I don't remeber if I ever cashed a ticket at SA!
I hate GP, AQU, Bel.

Hey,

Aren't you that guy that made me eat my shorts when Debonair Joe won again after winning the Malibu at 50-1? That's at least one... :)

[schweitz]

All time best track: Trinity Meadows (too bad it closed)
Others: Houston
Evangeline
Retama
Mountaineer

Worst: Santa Anita
Gulfstream
Calder

I only wager on cheap claiming,mdn. claiming and
nw claiming.

[Tom]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Hey,

Aren't you that guy that made me eat my shorts when Debonair Joe won again after winning the Malibu at 50-1? That's at least one... :)

Oh yeah....forgot that one! Was very sweet!:D

[BIG RED]

BEST : HOL - Turfway-Calder- BEL

WORST: Del Mar- Laurel- Church

note: Santa Anita has always been my favorite track, but for some reason I can't profit there like I used to. Must be the short feilds and not many big prices for me. I'm right around even now, whereas I should be very healthy but am not.

[trying2win]

Originally posted by BIG RED
BEST : HOL - Turfway-Calder- BEL

WORST: Del Mar- Laurel- Church

note: Santa Anita has always been my favorite track, but for some reason I can't profit there like I used to. Must be the short feilds and not many big prices for me. I'm right around even now, whereas I should be very healthy but am not.

BIG RED,

Speaking of Turfway Park, I wonder when they're going to start a card there again? A fair amount of cold winter weather lately, plus things like a frozen track etc, have really set them back. I keep reading in the recent cancellations at Turfway, that they're waiting for the track to thaw out. I wonder how long that'll take? I enjoy betting the races at Turfway Park, but I'll just have to be patient.

You mention you're about even at Santa Anita. I wish I could say that about SA this year!...I'm on a hiatus from betting Santa Anita again. Haven't bet SA the last three cards and counting. Once more on the theme of "breaking even"...It reminds me of that old horseplayers' saying..."Gee, I hope I break even today, I can sure use the money!"

As you can see by the replies in this thread, Santa Anita is listed in the 'struggling' category more than any other track listed by our fellow PA members.

T2W

[Buddha]

Originally posted by trying2win
BIG RED,

Speaking of Turfway Park, I wonder when they're going to start a card there again? A fair amount of cold winter weather lately, plus things like a frozen track etc, have really set them back. I keep reading in the recent cancellations at Turfway, that they're waiting for the track to thaw out. I wonder how long that'll take? I enjoy betting the races at Turfway Park, but I'll just have to be patient.


Yea, being from the northern area with the winter racing, it has been a tough year. Turfway is probably dealing with the track that is close to freezing, and frozen in areas, but not the whole track. That itself can cause big problems. It is just like running on the dirt, and hitting a hole. You have hte frozen dirt that is harder, which is fine if it is consistent, and then you mix the "quicksand" thawed parts. Those uneven areas are what cause the big problems. It is best to either stay thawed out, or stay frozen, not somewhere in the middle :)

As for how long it will take, only the weather can decide that :) Just get a day or two around 40, and it should do the trick if it isnt too frozen.

[DealMe3]

Best Tracks to nail longshots: Calder Race Course and Turfway Park.

Second Favorite for longshots: Hawthorne, Aqueduct, Gulfstream Park, Tampa Bay Downs and Belmont Park.

Third Favorite: Oaklawn Park, Fairgrounds, Arlington Park, and Saratoga (real tough to nail a longshot).

I stay away from: Beulah, River Downs, and Thistledowns.

Since I play from an Illinois OTB; I don't stay late to play the southwest and west coast tracks.

[BIG RED]

I haven't played Turfway since they cancelled two days in a row. Noticed they've been cancelling frequently. I spent a lot of time on those two cards, come up with some mouthwatering bets, then click on and find out not running again. Just waiting until they get in full stride again, I can wait.

[trying2win]

Has anyone ever figured out why a horseplayer can use the same handicapping methods at several tracks, and get widely-different results? Here are some examples:

Turfway finally gets a card started on Sun. Feb. 15. I had a good day there and at Turf Paradise. That continues a very satisfactory trend at those two tracks for the last while.

I continued my experiments betting Fairgrounds and Sam Houston on Sun. Feb. 15. Thumbs down for Fairgrounds again. The results at FG in this experiment, have been a lot like I was getting at Santa Anita...i.e. N.A.D. (not-a-dime) or N.T.N. (next-to-nothing). FG has now been added to the same "DO NOT PLAY LIST" along with Santa Anita. Oh well, Hawthorne and the odd other track that have been good to me in the past, will be starting their meets in the next few months.

Sam Houston meanwhile, is good news and bad news! The good news is I've been getting a reasonable amount of winners there...the bad news is the win payoffs have been consistently disappointing.

To illustrate some weird happenings at different tracks, here's some illustrations:

--First of all, I use two different computer handicapping programs to select my bets. I also use the morning line as a guide. Most of the bets will be on horses between ML odds of 8-1 and 15-1, with the odd one at 6-1. So, how come I can get a fair number of longshots over a period of time at Turfway Park and Turf Paradise that pay way over the ML, while at Sam Houston the horses that I do win on, are consistently only about half of the ML? Are there more sharpies betting at Sam Houston, than let's say at Turfway or Turf Paradise?

Continuing on in the HOW COME DEPARTMENT...How come I could hardly cash a ticket at Santa Anita or The Fairgrounds?

Anyone else encountering some strange results at some tracks, when compared to some other tracks you're playing? Maybe I should send some of these strange-happening stories at the tracks, to one of those TV shows like "Believe It Or Not", or "Unexplained Mysteries"!...LOL....

T2W

[shanta]

i have been using the same program for years.these are the tracks that i have never been able to crack in the last 2 years:Delta,Penn,Fairgrounds,Delmar,Hollywood,Evan geline,Retama.To me whats more amazing is that tracks to me consistently run in "cycles" of being able to win steadily at but then go "ice cold" for weeks! There is a thread in "general handicapping discussion" called "best way to play 2 horses in a race" that to me was real interesting. maybe you want to check it out and see.
The tracks i get the best results at in no particular order are
Mountaineer,Tampa bay,Sunland park,Finger lakes,Fort Erie,Churchill,Hawthorne(fall meet),Hoosier,Keeneland(fall meet).
Richie

[Zaf]

T2W,

Not all ML makers are created equally.

ZAFONIC

[Jeff P]

T2W,

Not all tracks are created equal. The unique surface and layout of each can greatly affect how races are won. Here's my take.

The surface at Turf Paradise is often a hard base with a little loose dirt sprinkled on top. As such, it often favors horses that can race on or near the lead. When this is the case, top late pace numbers and strong final time figures, even though they continue to attract plenty of money, pretty much become meaningless. I've seen other tracks- most notably Emerald, Turfway, Oaklawn, Golden Gate, Bay Meadows, Keeneland, Saratoga, and Hawthorne get predominantly speed favoring and stay that way for extended periods of time as well. Oddly enough, I lump Calder into this category, but usually only while soaked- either during, or shortly after, a strong rain- and before it starts to dry out.

A lot of times you don't even need to see a race or two. Watch closely as the horses first step out onto the track. Specifically, take notice of how deep their hooves sink into the surface. On many days when the track will favor early speed the horses hooves will appear to hardly sink into the surface at all.

The layout of Fairgrounds is another matter entirely. It's not an oval in the true sense. It has tight turns and a very long stretch. This can make handicapping a little difficult there. I've seen more than a handful of riders lose control of their mounts and bolt to the outside on those tight turns. I think you want a special kind of horse to win there- one that is tractible. By that I mean one that can give a strong burst on the backstretch, then rate for the rider while on the turn, and then get going again in the stretch. Good luck.

There are a lot of posts in this thread attesting to the difficulty of cashing good tickets at Santa Anita. I concur. It's a tough place for me as well. I think this has to do with several things: There's really a lot of strong competition from other players. Combine that with the small fields and it gets tough to find genuine overlays. Also, a lot of people I know complain to me about trainers drugging horses there. I can't say for sure that this is going on. But I've heard it so many times that I'm almost starting to believe it myself. Then there's the surface which seldom holds a bias for long. I think the track maintenance people there are quick to notice things and strive to create an honest racing surface- one that favors neither speed nor closers.

[JimG]

Although I have tried just about every track running, I would rate my performance at the following tracks:

GOOD

SoCal Circuit (esp. Del Mar)
Fair Grounds
Tampa
Colonial Downs
Kentucky Downs

AVERAGE

Churchill Downs
Monmouth Park
Keeneland
Sam Houston
Charles Town
NYRA Circuit
Calder
Charles Town
Sunland Park
Delta Downs
Delaware Park

POOR:

Mountaineer
Turfway Park
Gulfstream Park
Turf Paradise
Philadelphia Park
Penn National
Ellis Park
Laurel/Pimlico

Of the tracks I rated as poor, the only one I occasionally bet is Mountaineer (if I see a bias) or Gulfstream (high stakes only). The ones I rates as Average are hit and miss for me. The ones I rated as Good...I expect to win at over the long haul and do especially well on the Turf.

You might say that is alot of tracks, but if you do not test yourself by betting/watching the various tracks, how will you know whether you have a good feel? I see it as a learning tuition in this age of simulcasting.

JimG

[Bubbles]

I like NYRA, every now and then, a 45-1 shot that only I like may actually come in, or at least fill out some exotics bet. I cannot handicap Calder, surface is way too slow for a raw times guy like me.

[fiveouttasix]

My best results come at :
1) Keeneland
2) Churchill
3) Gulfstream
The reason is Trainer angles and knowing how these tracks play.( bias/profile )
I can say for me I always start losing if i try to play more than 2 Tracks at a time.
My worst results definitely come at Turfway. I don't even try anymore.
I have never seen a Track with so many runaway winners and so many large gaps between runners. Just can't figure it out.