Does anyone use a horse racing system?

[horseracerpro]

Hello Friends,

DO anyone use horse racing system which really works here ?

thank

[dkithore]

Horseracepro,

Since this is your first post here, I will respond a question with a question, if you don't mind. When you say use of a system, what do you mean? system that tells you it will make a you a bundle in a week and so on? Or do you mean a systematic way to look at information (Daily Racing Form) etc. to identify a contender?

On this board, you will find a lot of refined handicappers who may not bother with your question (I am not one of them but am trying). So, do not take it personal if you get more questions. Hopefully, it will clarify what you are looking for. Since I do not know your background as a horse player, I can not assume anything unless you state what you seek.

One easy way to start is read the section on new posts or use search engine to get some information on systems. Hope that helps.

Good luck

DK

[iceknight]

Hello Friends,

DO anyone use horse racing system which really works here ?

thank
First, let me start by explaining that horse race betting is a system of pari-mutuel betting, and that means that you are playing against other bettors in the game. So you are not playing against any house.

Having said that, if a system really works, any person who has that system can make more money from that system keeping it a secret, or pooling money with others to make larger bets (or larger tickets to increase the chances of a winning ticket) and split the pot. If instead, someone is just trying to sell you a system for a certain standard subscription fee or price of a software system - it is clear they value cold cash than playing with their system and betting risk money on it.

So, the short answer to your question is that, there is no prepackaged system that would work. But you can train with someone and develop your own system. There are some really good handicapping experts here as well as wagering experts. Attend some of those online seminars and improve the fundamentals.

One more thing, if anyone is making "incredible offers" on their website where you can buy all systems for a deal only this week etc, you should realize that it is as good a late night infomercial selling many things for 19.99 if you CALL RIGHT NOW!

[thaskalos]

Hello Friends,

DO anyone use horse racing system which really works here ?

thank

IMO...there isn't one profitable "system" out there which is offered at a price.

If there was...we'd never hear of it.

[ManU918]

Does

[raybo]

If you're talking about a method that is automated, makes your picks for you, tells you when to pass or play, and even tells you what minimum odds to demand, then ---- yes.

The general opinion among horse players is that no system/method that is profitable will ever be sold. That is absolutely false. Those naysayers just don't have one, or don't need one.

[iceknight]

If you're talking about a method that is automated, makes your picks for you, tells you when to pass or play, and even tells you what minimum odds to demand, then ---- yes.
. What is the system called and does it have a true positive roi?

[DeltaLover]

The general opinion among horse players is that no system/method that is profitable will ever be sold. That is absolutely false. Those naysayers just don't have one, or don't need one.

What is the motivation to sell such a system?

As you correctly state, horse players do not believe that such a thing exist so no matter what your target group will be very limited to new comers that are easy to convince so it is logical to assume that you will be better off just betting using this imaginary 'system'..

As far as those who do not need one, I do not agree.. Personally, I certainly need one and I am willing to pay a large price for something this. I just need some type of guarantee that I will not loose my money, that's it...

How large of a price I am willing to pay? I can put down a large enough bankroll, lets say $50K, participating only to 25% of the profits letting rge rest to the implementor of the system, assuming that in the case of a loss I will get back a refund of 75% of my initial capital. Of course I do not want to participate in the betting decisions, they should either be completely automatic or if not the system provider should be responsible for it.

But I will never accept to spend a buck for some software that is open ended in the sense of its operation and decision making mechanism leaving no responsibility for the seller.

Besides that, I see nothing wrong about buying software that is advertised as a data mining tool, a front end to a data base, or anything else with a well defined scope about improving my understanding of the game, this is something completely different and does not follow in the category of a 'system'

[iceknight]

As far as those who do not need one, I do not agree.. Personally, I certainly need one and I am willing to pay a large price for something this. I just need some type of guarantee that I will not loose LOSE my money, that's it...
Madoff, Bernie.

Mutual funds do not give guarantees.
Hedge funds do not give written guarantee but they do imply good returns and deliver most of the time.

[pandy]

Hello Friends,

DO anyone use horse racing system which really works here ?

thank

I can tell you a few things. A). There are horse racing systems that produce a profit. In fact, several professional betting syndicates betting both harness racing and thoroughbred racing use computer handicapping programs. B). Any system that works has a built in "value" meter. In other words, there is no bet unless the odds are right. I have never seen a system that will show a profit without some sort of odds criteria. C). If anyone has such as system, they will not go on a board like this and tell you about it.

[Robert Goren]

There are several spot system players here. They aren't going to sell them to you. Most have several systems they use. They don't post a lot about because they get roast over the coals pretty good when they do. Most of the posters here are either data base handicappers or pace handicappers.

[raybo]

What is the motivation to sell such a system?

As you correctly state, horse players do not believe that such a thing exist so no matter what your target group will be very limited to new comers that are easy to convince so it is logical to assume that you will be better off just betting using this imaginary 'system'..

As far as those who do not need one, I do not agree.. Personally, I certainly need one and I am willing to pay a large price for something this. I just need some type of guarantee that I will not loose my money, that's it...

How large of a price I am willing to pay? I can put down a large enough bankroll, lets say $50K, participating only to 25% of the profits letting rge rest to the implementor of the system, assuming that in the case of a loss I will get back a refund of 75% of my initial capital. Of course I do not want to participate in the betting decisions, they should either be completely automatic or if not the system provider should be responsible for it.

But I will never accept to spend a buck for some software that is open ended in the sense of its operation and decision making mechanism leaving no responsibility for the seller.

Besides that, I see nothing wrong about buying software that is advertised as a data mining tool, a front end to a data base, or anything else with a well defined scope about improving my understanding of the game, this is something completely different and does not follow in the category of a 'system'

Delta,

We've been through this several times now. The method uses a track specific database and if one user doesn't use exactly the same settings as another, or if they don't use exactly the same database of races, they will not get the same exact picks. That's the last time I will respond to this question.

My motivation is not to make lots of money selling the program, it was, and is, to help others become profitable. Yes, I make a little money on the sales, but hardly enough to compensate me for all the work I put into it, and continue to support, producing free upgrades and updates frequently, plus all the personal one on one support I give each user. You can think what you want about people who say such things, and you can say they are in it only for the money like all the other "heads in the sand" people out there, I don't care what you or anyone else here thinks, regarding this subject.

[pandy]

Hello Friends,

DO anyone use horse racing system which really works here ?

thank


Another thing about systems, anyone who tries to tell you that they have a system that produces a profit with a high percentage of winners is most likely lying.

About 8 years ago some guys were selling picks on a website, which is no longer active. I can't remember the name. The picks were computer generated and all were 6-1 or higher on the morning line. They would give out about 15 picks a day during the week and 25 to 30 on weekends because more tracks were running. They showed a flat bet profit for the few years that they had the site, with a win percentage around 12%. They won about 9 out of 12 months a year. I paid the $50 subscription fee because I wanted to see what their patterns were. If they had a losing month, the next month was free.

Anyway, I learned quite a bit from studying their computerized picks, even though they didn't tell you why the computer program was picking each horse. It helped me develop my own systems. It also made me realize that you could win consistently with a very low win percentage if you were a good handicapper. And, it reaffirmed my belief that you can win with a system.

[Hosshead]

Another thing about systems, anyone who tries to tell you that they have a system that produces a profit with a high percentage of winners is most likely lying.

About 8 years ago some guys were selling picks on a website, which is no longer active. I can't remember the name. The picks were computer generated and all were 6-1 or higher on the morning line. They would give out about 15 picks a day during the week and 25 to 30 on weekends because more tracks were running. They showed a flat bet profit for the few years that they had the site, with a win percentage around 12%. They won about 9 out of 12 months a year. I paid the $50 subscription fee because I wanted to see what their patterns were. If they had a losing month, the next month was free.

Anyway, I learned quite a bit from studying their computerized picks, even though they didn't tell you why the computer program was picking each horse. It helped me develop my own systems. It also made me realize that you could win consistently with a very low win percentage if you were a good handicapper. And, it reaffirmed my belief that you can win with a system.That's a nice encouraging post Pandy. :ThmbUp:

[dkithore]

Horseracepro.

look at this link.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9cZdKqHeeFEC&pg=PA3&dq=class+of+race+horse&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lX08Ue7mLsjQrQfejYGoBQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA

[raybo]

Another thing about systems, anyone who tries to tell you that they have a system that produces a profit with a high percentage of winners is most likely lying.

About 8 years ago some guys were selling picks on a website, which is no longer active. I can't remember the name. The picks were computer generated and all were 6-1 or higher on the morning line. They would give out about 15 picks a day during the week and 25 to 30 on weekends because more tracks were running. They showed a flat bet profit for the few years that they had the site, with a win percentage around 12%. They won about 9 out of 12 months a year. I paid the $50 subscription fee because I wanted to see what their patterns were. If they had a losing month, the next month was free.

Anyway, I learned quite a bit from studying their computerized picks, even though they didn't tell you why the computer program was picking each horse. It helped me develop my own systems. It also made me realize that you could win consistently with a very low win percentage if you were a good handicapper. And, it reaffirmed my belief that you can win with a system.

That sounds about right, for single selections. Now, play up to 3 selections per race with odds as high as they go, and a hit rate of 40% to 70%, depending on track.

[raybo]

Horseracepro.

look at this link.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9cZdKqHeeFEC&pg=PA3&dq=class+of+race+horse&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lX08Ue7mLsjQrQfejYGoBQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA

The first one isn't too interesting, but the second one, daily double, makes some sense.

[Overlay]

Having said that, if a system really works, any person who has that system can make more money from that system keeping it a secret, or pooling money with others to make larger bets (or larger tickets to increase the chances of a winning ticket) and split the pot. If instead, someone is just trying to sell you a system for a certain standard subscription fee or price of a software system - it is clear they value cold cash than playing with their system and betting risk money on it.
If there were a system that could not become obsolete/unprofitable through increased use/overbetting, what reason would the developer of the system have to refrain from "sharing the wealth" (with a little monetary gain for himself as part of a "value-for-value" exchange)?
IMO...there isn't one profitable "system" out there which is offered at a price.

If there was...we'd never hear of it.
I would think that if a system (such as mentioned above) could not become obsolete or unprofitable, there would be (as I said) no reason to keep it a secret.
The general opinion among horse players is that no system/method that is profitable will ever be sold. That is absolutely false. Those naysayers just don't have one, or don't need one.
I completely agree.
What is the motivation to sell such a system?
What would be the motivation not to sell it, if it could benefit other players and retain its effectiveness over time, while also providing compensation for the developer?
I can tell you a few things. A). There are horse racing systems that produce a profit. In fact, several professional betting syndicates betting both harness racing and thoroughbred racing use computer handicapping programs. B). Any system that works has a built in "value" meter. In other words, there is no bet unless the odds are right. I have never seen a system that will show a profit without some sort of odds criteria. C). If anyone has such as system, they will not go on a board like this and tell you about it.
I agree with A) and B). :)

[pandy]

By the way, when I say that no one would tell you if they had a winning system, what I mean is that someone who buys a good system that is working for them will normally not tell anyone about it. In fact, they'll go to the track or OTB and brag about their sudden hot streak and make it sound as if they came up with the picks all on their own with traditional handicapping.

As for selling, you're always going to have people who say that no one would sell something that works, but that just isn't true. First of all, there's no guarantee that something will work for ever. So if you have a system that you test for 6 months and it shows a juicy positive ROI, and you sell it and make tens of thousands of dollars, that's money in the bank, guaranteed, risk free. And you can bet the system plays and make even more money.

[raybo]

By the way, when I say that no one would tell you if they had a winning system, what I mean is that someone who buys a good system that is working for them will normally not tell anyone about it. In fact, they'll go to the track or OTB and brag about their sudden hot streak and make it sound as if they came up with the picks all on their own with traditional handicapping.

As for selling, you're always going to have people who say that no one would sell something that works, but that just isn't true. First of all, there's no guarantee that something will work for ever. So if you have a system that you test for 6 months and it shows a juicy positive ROI, and you sell it and make tens of thousands of dollars, that's money in the bank, guaranteed, risk free. And you can bet the system plays and make even more money.

"Tens of thousands of dollars"? Man oh man! First of all, horse racing is fast becoming a closed system and selling enough programs to make that kind of money on the sales, is crazy. The only people making that kind of money selling racing programs, are those who have subscription requirements for data, upgrades, supporting programs, etc., etc.. I've had my program for sale for well over a year now and made a whopping $3000+ on sales. I could make that on one good superfecta.

[dkithore]

The first one isn't too interesting, but the second one, daily double, makes some sense.
Raybo,

I agree. Neither of the systems or methods are new. In fact, both are dated. My intention was to give him a lead and then have him do the research before he plunks his monies into any system.

[thaskalos]

If there were a system that could not become obsolete/unprofitable through increased use/overbetting, what reason would the developer of the system have to refrain from "sharing the wealth" (with a little monetary gain for himself as part of a "value-for-value" exchange)?

I would think that if a system (such as mentioned above) could not become obsolete or unprofitable, there would be (as I said) no reason to keep it a secret.

I completely agree.

What would be the motivation not to sell it, if it could benefit other players and retain its effectiveness over time, while also providing compensation for the developer?

I agree with A) and B). :)

I have tried on my own to find a profitable "system"...and I have failed. And I say this after purchasing many, many of them...most of which were determined to be profitable by supposedly reputable sources who had -- supposedly -- tested them honestly, and thoroughly.

Some of these systems were obvious trash, which were not worth the paper they were printed on...while others were very literate -- and were obviously written by educated people. Some consisted of a few badly typed pages stapled together...and others were presented as sophisticated computer software. Some came up with selections...while others came up with betting lines.

I bought these systems at prices ranging from $19.99 to $399.99...over a span of many years -- and I found that they had only ONE thing in common. None of them -- NONE OF THEM -- were "profitable"...and the results they produced did not even approach the wildly exaggerated claims made by their "developers".

Now...does this mean that there are no winning systems being sold out there? Well...I don't think there are...but I could easily be wrong.

So I ask those here who know of the existence of such a system to please inform me about it...because I would be very interested in acquiring it, as quickly as possible -- assuming that I haven't bought it already.

I will test the system thoroughly, and report the findings here...and if the system really is as advertised...I would be more than willing to also pay a very generous finders fee.

But remember, we are talking "profitable systems" here; not systems that lose overall...but may offer a new "idea" or two, which I MAY be able to use in my own play. And just to be a little more clear...price is no object. I am willing to pay whatever the system developer deems fair...assuming that there is a money back guarantee -- in case the system "underperforms".

I eagerly await any suitable response...

[raybo]

I have tried on my own to find a profitable "system"...and I have failed. And I say this after purchasing many, many of them...most of which were determined to be profitable by supposedly reputable sources who had -- supposedly -- tested them honestly, and thoroughly.

Some of these systems were obvious trash, which were not worth the paper they were printed on...while others were very literate -- and were obviously written by educated people. Some consisted of a few badly typed pages stapled together...and others were presented as sophisticated computer software. Some came up with selections...while others came up with betting lines.

I bought these systems at prices ranging from $19.99 to $399.99...over a span of many years -- and I found that they had only ONE thing in common. None of them -- NONE OF THEM -- were "profitable"...and the results they produced did not even approach the wildly exaggerated claims made by their "developers".

Now...does this mean that there are no winning systems being sold out there? Well...I don't think there are...but I could easily be wrong.

So I ask those here who know of the existence of such a system to please inform me about it...because I would be very interested in acquiring it, as quickly as possible -- assuming that I haven't bought it already.

I will test the system thoroughly, and report the findings here...and if the system really is as advertised...I would be more than willing to also pay a very generous finders fee.

But remember, we are talking "profitable systems" here; not systems that lose overall...but may offer a new "idea" or two, which I MAY be able to use in my own play. And just to be a little more clear...price is no object. I am willing to pay whatever the system developer deems fair...assuming that there is a money back guarantee -- in case the system "underperforms".

I eagerly await any suitable response...

While a program that could be "cut off" might offer a money back guarantee, although I doubt there are many out there that don't at least charge you some sort of fee, when you're talking about a spreadsheet program, you can't just cut it off. Once the purchaser gets the program, it's his, he can study it and extract every single algorithm it contains, all the "proprietary" stuff is there for the taking. The cost of the spreadsheet is to help cover the cost of development and , hopefully, to produce some motivation to not share it with others, or worse, selling it to others.

So, if you're looking for guarantees, look elsewhere.

Every track you play has it's own workbook, and you must test each of those against that track's database of past races and results and there are presently 10 separate rankings methods that must be tested, as well as 11 different minimum odds ranges, as well as up to 3 picks per race that can be tested. So, I have my doubts that you would, first of all, thoroughly test the program, after buying enough card and results files to populate the database for each track you test, adhere, exactly, to the rules, even in the midst of a losing streak. The problem that many players have is the refusal to stick with the program, and it's rules, and continue to update the database, every day. There's quite a bit of work involved in this and somehow I doubt you would ever admit that it's worth the trouble. And, of course, you need to be able to operate the spreadsheet in the first place, and knowing your feelings regarding computer programs, versus your pen and paper methods, I doubt you would be a good fit. One of my members said the hardest thing for him was having trust in the program, without inserting some subjective stuff into it. I think you would face the same problem, you would want to "enhance" things, and that will not work at all. It's a black box, you either trust it after your testing, or you don't.

[dansan]

I have a system that's wins every race I just hit the All button and then when I run out of money I use my bonus system It's called ATM that pays all the time too suckers

[raybo]

I have a system that's wins every race I just hit the All button and then when I run out of money I use my bonus system It's called ATM that pays all the time too suckers

Well, it isn't too hard to eliminate several horses as contenders, then bet the remaining horses if their odds meet your minimum. You might not need to hit that ATM.