Oklahoma wants to OK horse slaughter

[racingfan378]

Boy oh boy, who the hell elected these people!?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/76385/oklahoma-horse-slaughter-plant-bill-advances

[cj]

Out of curiosity, what would you propose be done with all these horses?

[racingfan378]

Out of curiosity, what would you propose be done with all these horses?

:mad:

So then it's ok to own a slow or weak horse, decide that you now want to make some money, somehow, someway and that's to kill it!? Boy that sounds like a great plan for all slow racehorses and horses in general doesn't it? :confused:


I hope the greyhound industry gets wind of this, then maybe they can ship the slow dogs to Spain where it isn't against the law to kill them. :faint:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/638/631/638/stop-greyhounds-being-tortured-to-death-in-spain/

[DJofSD]

Coneheads: we're from France (where they eat horses).

[cj]

:mad:

So then it's ok to own a slow or weak horse, decide that you now want to make some money, somehow, someway and that's to kill it!? Boy that sounds like a great plan for all slow racehorses and horses in general doesn't it? :confused:


I hope the greyhound industry gets wind of this, then maybe they can ship the slow dogs to Spain where it isn't against the law to kill them. :faint:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/638/631/638/stop-greyhounds-being-tortured-to-death-in-spain/

I never said I was for this. I was just curious what to do with them. People are going to get rid of horses they don't want one way or another.

Torture is not even remotely close to this, not sure why you thought that was an appropriate link.

[cj]

Coneheads: we're from France (where they eat horses).

Lots of places eat horse meat and think nothing of it.T hough I lived in a country where it was common, I never ate it. (Just trying to save myself from getting the mean face emoticon)

[racingfan378]

I never said I was for this. I was just curious what to do with them. People are going to get rid of horses they don't want one way or another.

Torture is not even remotely close to this, not sure why you thought that was an appropriate link.

That link was posted so no one thought I was making up any b/s lies about greyhounds.

[mountainman]

Racing people in general oppose it because we respect and owe the beast. Some other folks find it gross, perhaps because the horse is beautiful, carries us, and seems noble. But a large faction of the population would knowingly consume horsemeat and consider it a godsend. Racing doesn't rule or dictate to a hungry world.

[DJofSD]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/horse-meat-found-ikeas-swedish-meatballs

[classhandicapper]

IMO, almost all the issues with horse racing could be solved or improved upon if the industry was consolidated, reorganized, and government got out of the way except for possibly granting licenses and collecting taxes on racetrack profits.

This is the current business model for horse racing:

Almost everyone involved in any aspect of the sport loses money so there is no capital to fix or improve anything. Yet we expect it to work.

[classhandicapper]

Out of curiosity, what would you propose be done with all these horses?

As a Knicks fan, I think Kevin Durant, Russel Westbrook, and Serge Ibaka should leave the Thunder and become volunteers to help with this issue. ;)

[Pensacola Pete]

How many of you who think this is cruel are going to have a meal of beef, chicken/turkey, fish, or pork tonight? As long as the animal doesn't suffer when put down---and that can't always be said about steer, hogs, fowl and fish----what's the problem with it?

When your dog is old and crippled and suffering, do you keep him alive? If you're a good sort, you take him to the vet and put him to sleep. Living on and on through pain and misery is reserved for humans.

PS: I'm vegan, but not because of anti-cruelty. It's just healthier in my opinion.

[PaceAdvantage]

How many of you who think this is cruel are going to have a meal of beef, chicken/turkey, fish, or pork tonight?Well, the one problem with this argument is that beef, chicken, turkey and pork are all EXPRESSLY RAISED FOR THE PURPOSE OF HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

Horses, in this country at least, ARE NOT.

So, I am not a hypocrite by speaking out against horse slaughter while enjoying my tasty rib-eye. Tradition in the United States of America says NO to horses on the dinner table. And YES to beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and pork...

[cj]

Well, the one problem with this argument is that beef, chicken, turkey and pork are all EXPRESSLY RAISED FOR THE PURPOSE OF HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

Horses, in this country at least, ARE NOT.

So, I am not a hypocrite by speaking out against horse slaughter while enjoying my tasty rib-eye. Tradition in the United States of America says NO to horses on the dinner table. And YES to beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and pork...

You can't slip fish in the second part because it doesn't fit the first...just sayin...unless you are on a catfish farm or something.

I actually don't think horses are raised anywhere for human consumption, are they?

[nijinski]

Horses were always considered companion animals . What majestic and beautiful companions they are , this is as low as it gets . .
Shame on the administration .

Watch those auction prices rise and if you have healthy horses on your land ,
you may need to secure the property.

The slaughter equipment differs so if money isn't funded to accomodate , it will be a painful death .

Horses are not cattle , they will fight with fear till the end . Cattle are much calmer . It's just beyond comprehension . .

[Robert Goren]

As usual when this subject is broached here, there is lots of indignation, but no real answers as to what do with race horses after they have outlived their usefulness.

[cj]

As usual when this subject is broached here, there is lots of indignation, but no real answers as to what do with race horses after they have outlived their usefulness.

I have to agree. Nobody seems to have an answer. I asked in the second post of the thread and it has yet to be addressed.

The funny thing is we always hear we are jaded horseplayers that don't care about the animals. But, last I checked, horseplayers aren't sending horses to slaughter, horsemen are.

[Robert Goren]

IMO, almost all the issues with horse racing could be solved or improved upon if the industry was consolidated, reorganized, and government got out of the way except for possibly granting licenses and collecting taxes on racetrack profits.

This is the current business model for horse racing:

Almost everyone involved in any aspect of the sport loses money so there is no capital to fix or improve anything. Yet we expect it to work.Exact how is the government holding back the horse racing industry?
The current business model for horse racing was designed and implemented by the racing industry. Any involvement by the government is being done at the bequest of the industry.

[JustRalph]

Exact how is the government holding back the horse racing industry?
The current business model for horse racing was designed and implemented by the racing industry. Any involvement by the government is being done at the bequest of the industry.

You're joking right? You defend government at all costs?

Ever heard of NYRA ? You think there might be a little governmental problem in NY?

[PaceAdvantage]

The funny thing is we always hear we are jaded horseplayers that don't care about the animals. But, last I checked, horseplayers aren't sending horses to slaughter, horsemen are.Quote of the year...

You should make that your new signature...

[cj]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112575/horse-meat-ikea-delicious#

[DJofSD]

Christopher Moore ‏@TheAuthorGuy

Breaking: World Market will replace horse meat with bits of Hugo Chavez in their store samples.

Funny?!

[rubicon55]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112575/horse-meat-ikea-delicious#

Thanks for the different perspective. To each his own I guess.

[cj]

Thanks for the different perspective. To each his own I guess.

I'm not pretending I have any answers, and I don't eat horse meat, but I don't have a big issue with people that do.

[rubicon55]

I'm not pretending I have any answers, and I don't eat horse meat, but I don't have a big issue with people that do.

Just in case I was referring to the author of the article. I should have been more articulate in that short reply. By the way I feel the same.

[nijinski]

"Remember Me Horse Rescue , will be at Lone Star Park , April 26 for a fundraiser .
Thought I'd mention it here for any local posters . Jule Krone , Jack Van Berg and Maggie Moss will be guests . I would imagine the Keen's will be on hand . it is run by Donna Keen .
A mention here too that Midwest , made a nice donation to this rescue and
is building a new barn for them.

I put this here to to make a point . There are many good people in this
industry , saving ex racehorses from slaughter . They just need more and
I hope someday , this will be the status across the board .
I know for myself and my family . We will never be comfortable with the
idea of horsemeat on a menu !

[cj]

I've been hearing commercials on sports radio here with pleas for contacting your local politicians to not pass the bill.

[classhandicapper]

Exact how is the government holding back the horse racing industry?
The current business model for horse racing was designed and implemented by the racing industry. Any involvement by the government is being done at the bequest of the industry.

In an ideal world, I don't think governments should get a piece of the handle.

If costs rise, even the most well run track on the planet will lose a fortune under that model, but the government will still get its share. There is also very little flexibility to move the take down to see what would work better when a big piece of the take is earmarked towards government.

Tracks should be run like all other businesses. They should generate earnings and free cash flow, pay taxes on profits, and decide how best to invest what's left. That could be purses, infrastructure, advertising, lower take, perks for players etc... But the government should not get a piece of the revenue. It should get a piece of the profit.

You also should not have to jump through hoops to add new bet types, change the take, change dates etc... The regulation should be very limited and just protect the horses and players. You want businesses to be nimble, to be able to invest, to be able to make changes quickly when warranted etc...

[johnhannibalsmith]

In an ideal world, I don't think governments should get a piece of the handle.

...

In an ideal world, I guess I agree. But since state governments are heavily invested in the industry - supplying all of the tiers of regulation from the majority of the stewards to the commission to the DOR and his/her staff, the state vet and test barn, the testing itself, the investigators, the auditors, often even much of the breeding programs as part of "ag" development, etc, etc - this is one rare case where it isn't entirely the case that big gov is just standing on the sidelines skimming money without a vested interest.

[dkithore]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Quote of the year...

You should make that your new signature.
PA,

You gave me an idea. Why not we have awards for bloggers who come up with creative ideas, statements, contribution to the handicappers here, humor, original thinking etc.? What do you guys think?

[classhandicapper]

In an ideal world, I guess I agree. But since state governments are heavily invested in the industry - supplying all of the tiers of regulation from the majority of the stewards to the commission to the DOR and his/her staff, the state vet and test barn, the testing itself, the investigators, the auditors, often even much of the breeding programs as part of "ag" development, etc, etc - this is one rare case where it isn't entirely the case that big gov is just standing on the sidelines skimming money without a vested interest.

If they were run like true private companies, IMO a lot of those costs would vanish or shrink and the tracks would be freer to innovate and invest.

But back to the original point, IMO, if racing were part of a true free market, a hell of lot of tracks would be closed, the remaining ones would be way more profitable, and there wouldn't be a huge surplus of horses that wind up getting slaughtered. No one would be breeding all these cheap horses.

They are still going to breed horses like Bernadini to Rachel etc.. even if there are only 5 tracks in the country. So the quality will remain high. It's all the economically "expendable" ones that will no longer be bred.

[iceknight]

If they were run like true private companies, IMO a lot of those costs would vanish or shrink and the tracks would be freer to innovate and invest.

But back to the original point, IMO, if racing were part of a true free market, a hell of lot of tracks would be closed, the remaining ones would be way more profitable, and there wouldn't be a huge surplus of horses that wind up getting slaughtered. No one would be breeding all these cheap horses.

They are still going to breed horses like Bernadini to Rachel etc.. even if there are only 5 tracks in the country. So the quality will remain high. It's all the economically "expendable" ones that will no longer be bred.
This thread is becoming more of a political discussion (about the mythical "free market"). Could we keep to the specific topic on hand - oklahoma legislation on horse slaughter (and that is a state right, so perhaps we should not be trying to force a "central viewpoint" on that state).

[burnsy]

What about removing the "political BS" and standing on good, solid principles? A good heart and things money can't measure? This is why this country is going to Idiotocracy the motion picture...its hilarious and almost coming true. I don't care if you are horseplayer, a jockey, a trainer, owner or a casual fan, you have to oppose something like this. They can eat whatever they want in other countries but for our society and culture, its just is not right...especially race horses. If you can't muscle up the spine to oppose this and help the people that save retired race horses......you should get out of the game or playing the game. If you don't love these animals and would allow them to walk into a meat grinder, after what they've done(and put out) for you. Why would you participate? If its just for money.....you are pretty sick. I should not really comment because its easier for me to get along with most animals than people...i'm a pain in the ass but animals will never judge you...its just that so many people are not smarter than a horses ass either, so much that goes on rubs me the wrong way. I don't care how they "justify" it..these people are Grade A morons and they guys that vote yes should have photo ops in front of horses getting slaughtered. Bro, you just said get off the politics and you throw states rights in there...i don't give a shit....it just is not right on any level...period.

[MainelyPace]

Some well made points in this thread already...But here is one that has been missed and should be the major focus:

What message does this send to the voting public in America?

Already horse racing stands as a shadow of it's former self, diminished in the public light. Occasionally we see a horse racing story make national headlines (typically Derby time or when something incredibly bad happens.) With that in mind, would we really want to send the message to America that just because these horses are not "good enough" to run for big money, we are sending them to slaughter?

Americans are a fickle bunch-they assume things whether true or not. The prevailing message to them will be that just because these horses are not running in big-money races (when the reality is they cannot even hold their own in the cheap claiming ranks) that is why they have a death sentence.

With so much negative already hitting the public, do we really want something like this as well? How about accentuating a positive for once, and setting something up for retirement, rather than slaughter.

I do like the idea of cutting the number of tracks. History of certain tracks and what-not aside, we are living in a new day and age of horse racing, where there does not need to be as many tracks running simultaneously. Cut some tracks out, open up more races at the tracks remaining for a few years to allow the horses to filter out without having to be destroyed. Then, as the horse population trickles downwards from less breeding, less races will be needed to meet the population.

Obviously, it is a little more complex and issue than that, but that is the simplified version.

[DJofSD]

Do American's associate horse slaughter with either race tracks or consumption of horse meat?

[MainelyPace]

Do American's associate horse slaughter with either race tracks or consumption of horse meat?

It would be unwise to assume they would not...Or that the media would not play a part in making it seem that way or picking up that angle.

[classhandicapper]

This thread is becoming more of a political discussion (about the mythical "free market"). Could we keep to the specific topic on hand - oklahoma legislation on horse slaughter (and that is a state right, so perhaps we should not be trying to force a "central viewpoint" on that state).

IMO, there's nothing political about what I am saying. It's straight up business/economics 101. We have a situation where WAY TOO MANY UNECONOMIC horses are being bred. Unfortunately, many eventually wind up being unneeded, unwanted, uncared for, and sometimes left to die or be slaughtered (sometimes for food) as a result.

People aren't questioning the right of states to have legislation on this. I have no issue with that.

People are looking for solutions so we don't need the legislation (or at least should be).

Instead of looking for a bandaid, I am looking to diagnose the problem so it can actually be fixed.

IMO, one clear problem is that the industry as a whole is wildly unprofitable for owners of horses (some of which are clearly unsuited to ownership). So, IMO, one partial solution to that problem would be consolidation. That would lead to higher profits and fewer horses. Both would reduce the problem.

But that is not happening partially because governments derive revenue from racing, they are worried about the political fall out from lost jobs etc... So uneconomic tracks are supported, sometimes by casinos.

Eventually though, IMO, things will correct when governments are no longer deriving revenues, they get tired of using casino money to subsidize the racing related jobs etc... and market forces start cleaning up the mess.

It happens in many industries time and time again, but it can't happen unless it's allowed to happen.

[classhandicapper]

If you don't love these animals and would allow them to walk into a meat grinder, after what they've done(and put out) for you. Why would you participate?

I agree with you.

Unfortunately, there are loads of people that don't think of animals in those terms. So the people that do (like Old Friends and its supporters etc..) have to do what they can.

[iceknight]

What about removing the "political BS" and standing on good, solid principles? A good heart and things money can't measure? This is why this country is going to Idiotocracy the motion picture...its hilarious and almost coming true. I don't care if you are horseplayer, a jockey, a trainer, owner or a casual fan, you have to oppose something like this I oppose cruelty to ALL animals. I am against factory farming and large scale raising on animals in cruel conditions for human consumption. Are you? Giving compassion just to horses and not to other animals is something I don't rate extra worthy of my time. Right now many horses are being shipped out of state or out of country and cruel conditions, for slaughter. If it is regulated (in OK), there is at least a chance horses stand slightly better conditions than currently.
As for another post where I saw that "cattle are calm" (so they can be slaughtered), whereas horses will be agitated etc., that is barely a justification to kill one set of animals while subjecting them to cruel conditions prior to their execution (cramming them into enclosures/transport trucks, improper bolting etc)

[nijinski]

Do American's associate horse slaughter with either race tracks or consumption of horse meat?

An HBO filming helped to curb what was going on at Mountaineer . Sorry
Mountain folk , but they had a link to SugarCreek and very ugly stuff was going down .
So yes , the exposure did not help racing .