handicapping the Vet

[lamboguy]

they caught a vet this weekend in the Jane Cibelli in Tampa probably shockwaving one of her horses. i know that Jason DaCosta uses the very same vet. i watched her horses run today, and they did not run the same way as last week. i expect the same sub par performance from his horses as well.

in this game today, you need every edge that you can find, otherwise you should just send your money in and not even watch the races. i only wish i could pay the racing form to do the necessary work that i have to do every day to bet these horses!

[Stillriledup]

Vets should be listed in the program. Its time.

[turninforhome10]

Here is the link to the Tampa Bay times article
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/parimutuels/tampa-bay-downs-delays-vets-hearing/1275178
My claim is that while we bash trainers for violating the rules, they can't do it by themselves. Vets are at the root of this, the better their clients do the better they do. It is too bad that the powers that be won't publish the vet bills that were incurred to get the horse to race today. Publish it right in the pp's. Trainers get fined for their mistakes bet yet the drug pushers walk away scott free. Start hammering vets and taking licenses and maybe we can clean things up. Until then it will continue to be the wild west. That is why I got respect for owners like lambo, oats, hay,bute and lasix.

[lamboguy]

Here is the link to the Tampa Bay times article
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/parimutuels/tampa-bay-downs-delays-vets-hearing/1275178
My claim is that while we bash trainers for violating the rules, they can't do it by themselves. Vets are at the root of this, the better their clients do the better they do. It is too bad that the powers that be won't publish the vet bills that were incurred to get the horse to race today. Publish it right in the pp's. Trainers get fined for their mistakes bet yet the drug pushers walk away scott free. Start hammering vets and taking licenses and maybe we can clean things up. Until then it will continue to be the wild west. That is why I got respect for owners like lambo, oats, hay,bute and lasix.i found out that this vet got caught red handed blocking a splint the day of the race. i don't care what she says, she knows exactly what she did. She knows you are not supposed to do that. Berube will probably throw her out or not give her stalls there next year. that's why she got so many "good owners". its certainly not because of her training ability.

[proximity]

this is very sad if true because wasn't it jane who penned that courageous anti-drug letter to the drf just a few years back while many (all) other "hay, oats, and water" trainers remained silent? maybe she finally caved in to the pressure to compete? or maybe she was set up?

[hracingplyr]

She has gone from a 12% trainer to a 38% trainer at Tampa. Another guy who is using more than hay and oats there is jorge navarro and of course Ness.

[turninforhome10]

this is very sad if true because wasn't it jane who penned that courageous anti-drug letter to the drf just a few years back while many (all) other "hay, oats, and water" trainers remained silent? maybe she finally caved in to the pressure to compete? or maybe she was set up?
I would tend to think that some trainers don't consider shockwave therapy as medication. Here is older article explaining it
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Veterinary+Equine/Shock-wave-therapy-for-lameness/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/162182
Back in 2002 when it was first getting started we had an owner that was determined to claim a horse that I knew had problems and after much explaining he still went ahead and claimed the horse. Sure enough the horse had a suspensory ligament that was going south. Our vet basically said time off and maybe we could get him back, or I have this new shockwave therapy that we could use and continue. The owner chose the shockwave. The horse wins for fun 3 weeks later for N1X allowance. We ultrasounded the suspensory a few days after the race and it was not good. THe answer more shockwave and win his n4l for 15k. He wins and comes back terrible. The next day the horse could barely walk. Sadly enough the owner transfers the horse to a trainer in Neb and runs him at Columbus Fair for 3500, horse gets more threrapy. Horse pulls up bad in the race but was claimed. As far as the owner was concerned, problem solved with a nice profit to boot. Horse never ran again and I believe was latter sold to meat buyer. Very sad.

[VeryOldMan]

i found out that this vet got caught red handed blocking a splint the day of the race.

That's what I had read too, although just from the comments section to the Paulick Report articles about this. Supposedly the track vet walked in on the crime in progress, so to speak.

Is there ANY possible way the trainer didn't know about it? I find that hard to believe.

[lamboguy]

That's what I had read too, although just from the comments section to the Paulick Report articles about this. Supposedly the track vet walked in on the crime in progress, so to speak.

Is there ANY possible way the trainer didn't know about it? I find that hard to believe.NO NO NO

nothing is probably gonna happen to her, her girlfriend is Margo Creel, and she is good friends with Stella Thayer that owns that place. if you ran that track you certainly would not let her run her horses today, which she did.

[Not4Love]

We can debate this issue for a lifetime. Stop wagering on these tracks immediately .

[Robert Goren]

We can debate this issue for a lifetime. Stop wagering on these tracks immediately .Which tracks are different?

[onefast99]

Which tracks are different?
Gulfstream Park, 10 days out for shock waving. NYRA a guard escorts the vet to the horse on NYRA property for the purpose of shockwaving. NJ 10 days out also.

[VeryOldMan]

Gulfstream Park, 10 days out for shock waving. NYRA a guard escorts the vet to the horse on NYRA property for the purpose of shockwaving. NJ 10 days out also.

Assume the underlying issue isn't shockwaving (none of the rumors I've seen have suggested that was the issue instead of a nerve block) - where does that leave us as bettors? I have reason to know (from first-hand review of a vet bill, alas) that there are aggressive/unscrupulous outside vets who will do darn near anything on the drug front if instructed by the trainer.

[lamboguy]

Gulfstream Park, 10 days out for shock waving. NYRA a guard escorts the vet to the horse on NYRA property for the purpose of shockwaving. NJ 10 days out also.this wasn't shocking, it was worse, it was blocking splints..

in penn national they never saw michael gill horses get high-blocked, only suspected and they threw him out.

blocking is not only illegal, but also very dangerous to horses and humans that ride them.

i don't understand how Berube allowed her to run her horses there today. at least she should have been suspended pending investigation. if one of those horses happens to break down and an injury occurs due to a breakdown, he is open to get his ass sued along with the track owners..

[turninforhome10]

this wasn't shocking, it was worse, it was blocking splints..

in penn national they never saw michael gill horses get high-blocked, only suspected and they threw him out.

blocking is not only illegal, but also very dangerous to horses and humans that ride them.

i don't understand how Berube allowed her to run her horses there today. at least she should have been suspended pending investigation. if one of those horses happens to break down and an injury occurs due to a breakdown, he is open to get his ass sued along with the track owners..
So Lambo, is not blocking pretty close to nerving in a sense and does not nerving a horse need to be reported to the racing sec.? So why would using a shockwave to block a horse(which in the Tampa case it was blocking IMHO) not need to be reported to the racing sec. In Gill's case I remember him cutting that horses leg off at GP to avoid problems.

[lamboguy]

So Lambo, is not blocking pretty close to nerving in a sense and does not nerving a horse need to be reported to the racing sec.? So why would using a shockwave to block a horse(which in the Tampa case it was blocking IMHO) not need to be reported to the racing sec. In Gill's case I remember him cutting that horses leg off at GP to avoid problems.i don't do either, so i really don't know, but one process is shocking, the other is blocking. they allow shocking in most places 7-10 days before a race, there is no place that i know of that allows blocking ever. the shocking nerves up the pain so the horse doesn't feel anything. i can go on and on, but this really is sickening. i have always believed in the horse comes first, today it looks like the money over rules anything.

[Show Me the Wire]

That's what I had read too, although just from the comments section to the Paulick Report articles about this. Supposedly the track vet walked in on the crime in progress, so to speak.

Is there ANY possible way the trainer didn't know about it? I find that hard to believe.

Really, does not matter under trainer responsibility rules. I would be very shocked, if she did not have any personal knowledge though.

[proximity]

I would tend to think that some trainers don't consider shockwave therapy as medication.

i just assumed the author of that old drf letter would have been above such things. very disturbing to find out otherwise.

[RXB]

i just assumed the author of that old drf letter would have been above such things. very disturbing to find out otherwise.

I'm not surprised. She's been winning at such a high clip for the past two years, I figured that she must be up to something. I have a hard time these days believing that anybody who wins at an exceptionally high rate is doing it cleanly, especially if they have a sizable barn.

We'll see how it all plays out as facts become available, but if the vet was indeed blocking the horse, I don't buy for a split second that he would just go into her barn and do something like that without her instruction/permission.

[classhandicapper]

Vets should be listed in the program. Its time.

I agree 1000% on that one.

[BIG49010]

The problem with putting Vets in the program, many trainers use multiple vets for a horse.

[lamboguy]

bye bye Jane

[5dollarmuppet]

most in the thread have been dragging the vet (and trainer) through the mud, but I haven't seen that they've even had a hearing yet. Isn't there anyone willing to say "innocent until proven guilty," or instead, should we just all say "**** it, string them up!"?

[5dollarmuppet]

they caught a vet this weekend in the Jane Cibelli in Tampa probably shockwaving one of her horses. i know that Jason DaCosta uses the very same vet. i watched her horses run today, and they did not run the same way as last week. i expect the same sub par performance from his horses as well.

in this game today, you need every edge that you can find, otherwise you should just send your money in and not even watch the races. i only wish i could pay the racing form to do the necessary work that i have to do every day to bet these horses!


...or is too much work to find out their records (after easily penning the smear?)

[sammy the sage]

...or is too much work to find out their records (after easily penning the smear?)

Really...why don't YOU post records...they're IMPOSSIBLE for THE public to GET....

Lambo has SERIOUS connections...and he's saying he can't get records....

meanwhile you're doing EXACTLY what you accuse other's of doing... :rolleyes: :faint:

At least you have the RIGHT moniker...and credibilty here :sleeping:

[5dollarmuppet]

Really...why don't YOU post records...they're IMPOSSIBLE for THE public to GET....

Lambo has SERIOUS connections...and he's saying he can't get records....

meanwhile you're doing EXACTLY what you accuse other's of doing... :rolleyes: :faint:

At least you have the RIGHT moniker...and credibilty here :sleeping:


Are you for real? Connections don't matter when Smearing someone and being asked to back it up with stats. And, he's not saying he can't get records?? Duh.

It shouldn't be hard to see what those two trainer's strike rates have been since his accusation. I figured he might have them right at hand. Yea, I could dig it up in about 30 minutes, but since he is doing the smear campaign, thought he might have more "damning proof" at hand, lol (as you can probably guess, I already know, from a glance, that Cibelli has kept on winning, so kind of blows the Smear's theory, I'd say)

[brivolta]

If we are taking sides in the credibility department sign me up with the guy (Lambo) who has a proven track record on this forum of breaking news and consistently being a reliable contributor, as opposed to the guy who signed up and began posting for one sole purpose.

[The Hawk]

NO NO NO

nothing is probably gonna happen to her, her girlfriend is Margo Creel, and she is good friends with Stella Thayer that owns that place. if you ran that track you certainly would not let her run her horses today, which she did.

Who is Margo Creel?

[greengorilla]

UR absolutely right form is terrible. They mislead u every step of the way. Also Tampa is infamous for trainers and owners holding horses. That's why things that look impossible on paper come in.

[lamboguy]

Who is Margo Creel?
Margo is the Tampa Track handicapper, she is very friendly with the owner of the track, and she lives with Jane.

my interest in this case is only for the safety of the horses and the people that get on the backs of these horse. i have seen some bad things happen in the past from horses that have been blocked. its ugly, along with most people here, i don't like seeing horses and humans treated this way. i don't know the vet or the trainer's and hold no prior grudges. i just want some way to be assured that this action is not being done to horses.

[MightBeSosa]

UR absolutely right form is terrible. They mislead u every step of the way. Also Tampa is infamous for trainers and owners holding horses. That's why things that look impossible on paper come in.

things that look impossible on paper come in everywhere

[5dollarmuppet]

If we are taking sides in the credibility department sign me up with the guy (Lambo) who has a proven track record on this forum of breaking news and consistently being a reliable contributor, as opposed to the guy who signed up and began posting for one sole purpose.


This is what Lambo said:

"i found out that this vet got caught red handed blocking a splint the day of the race. i don't care what she says, she knows exactly what she did. She knows you are not supposed to do that. Berube will probably throw her out or not give her stalls there next year. that's why she got so many "good owners". its certainly not because of her training ability."

So, rather than waiting on a verdict, let's just go with someone who has a good track record? What if you were accused of some terrible crime and rather than a fair hearing of the facts, your case was decided on by a guy who didn't know you at all and only had 2nd hand information, but a "proven track record." Think about what you are saying.

But, nonetheless, let's see what happens...

[PaceAdvantage]

If we are taking sides in the credibility department sign me up with the guy (Lambo) who has a proven track record on this forum of breaking news and consistently being a reliable contributor, as opposed to the guy who signed up and began posting for one sole purpose.A proven track record of messing up names, dates, track attendance and a whole bunch of stuff he's been called out on.

I like the guy...met him up at the PA shindig at Saratoga...but to say he's reliable with his info...well...maybe in the meta-sense of the word... :lol:

Details are sometimes another story...

[Delawaretrainer]

It's already been reported in the newspaper that the track vet caught her vet blocking the horse's leg the day of the race. They also quoted her response, something about her not being there. She didn't say she didn't order it or anything, just that she wasn't there. The vet has already been kicked out but nothing has happened to Jane that I have heard. This is pretty much the worst thing you can be caught doing in horse racing and the vet was caught in the act. By blocking a horses pain, they will keep running when injured and possibly break down, injuring or killing horses and riders around you.

I like to give trainers the benefit of the doubt. Many times the trainer responsibility rule is unfair, vets make errors and the trainer and owner have to just eat it. However, in this case, I have no idea how she is going to explain this one. Unless Tampa continues to do nothing, this could be devastating for her. Maybe they are waiting for the purple egg to run.....

[lamboguy]

if anyone payed attention to the words that i used, my statements would not be in question. i used the name DENVER BOOT. a Denver Boot is a lock that generally runs around an automobiles wheel to make it impossible for the car to move. in Jane's case her barn is being scrutinized 24 hours a day until the investigation is completed. what my personal opinion of what this investigation is going to bring up is purely speculation. in the case of an automobile and a Denver Boot, the car becomes immobile until the reason for the Boot to begin with is cleared up to complete satisfaction. if it is not cleared up the car gets towed and impounded.

i hope that this clears up any mis interpretation of my previous posts on this matter.

[Delawaretrainer]

Was the other thread on Jane cibelli on this site removed?

[PaceAdvantage]

Was the other thread on Jane cibelli on this site removed?It surely was...

[5dollarmuppet]

if anyone payed attention to the words that i used, my statements would not be in question. i used the name DENVER BOOT. a Denver Boot is a lock that generally runs around an automobiles wheel to make it impossible for the car to move. in Jane's case her barn is being scrutinized 24 hours a day until the investigation is completed. what my personal opinion of what this investigation is going to bring up is purely speculation. in the case of an automobile and a Denver Boot, the car becomes immobile until the reason for the Boot to begin with is cleared up to complete satisfaction. if it is not cleared up the car gets towed and impounded.

i hope that this clears up any mis interpretation of my previous posts on this matter.


Seems the tide has turned against you, Lamboguy. Maybe you'll be more careful in the future. From everything I have heard, Cibelli is not only an outstanding trainer, she is an outstanding person. She has spoken out publicly in the press against drugging horses and obviously cares a tremendous amount for the animals. True, the verdict from the track isn't in it, and we'll all need to wait-n-see, but based on her reputation and track record, I'd think you should have given her the benefit of the doubt and presume her innocent until proven otherwise. Tsk tsk.

[5dollarmuppet]

It's already been reported in the newspaper that the track vet caught her vet blocking the horse's leg the day of the race. They also quoted her response, something about her not being there. She didn't say she didn't order it or anything, just that she wasn't there. The vet has already been kicked out but nothing has happened to Jane that I have heard. This is pretty much the worst thing you can be caught doing in horse racing and the vet was caught in the act. By blocking a horses pain, they will keep running when injured and possibly break down, injuring or killing horses and riders around you.

I like to give trainers the benefit of the doubt. Many times the trainer responsibility rule is unfair, vets make errors and the trainer and owner have to just eat it. However, in this case, I have no idea how she is going to explain this one. Unless Tampa continues to do nothing, this could be devastating for her. Maybe they are waiting for the purple egg to run.....


This is not a rhetorical or sarcastic response, but a serious request. Can you find/cite the newspaper report that said the vet was blocking the leg? Everything I have seen just says they banned the vet for giving a "prohibited treatment"?

[Delawaretrainer]

I stand corrected. The article I read has been removed or amended. Looks like damage control at work because many references to this instance are being removed. It is still in many other places but not from a newspaper source. Maybe this will end up being part of the defense, that this was not what they were doing. Her response was carefully worded.

Do you know that this is not true? If so, what is the prohibited treatment?

[5dollarmuppet]

I stand corrected. The article I read has been removed or amended. Looks like damage control at work because many references to this instance are being removed. It is still in many other places but not from a newspaper source. Maybe this will end up being part of the defense, that this was not what they were doing. Her response was carefully worded.

Do you know that this is not true? If so, what is the prohibited treatment?

Standing corrected and saying so publicly deserves a measure of respect, so good on you, Deleware trainer. But, why not just leave it at that instead of then continuing the insinuations with "looks like damage control." Why continue to assume some damage is needing to be controlled when you yourself ask what the prohibited treatment even was! Can't folks just admit that they jumped the gun and joined the mob? Even when called to cite the source for your accusation of blocking, you couldn't find it.

Everyone wants to jump on the moral bandwagons that go round from time to time, but we should know to be careful. As for me, I don't know what the treatment was and I don't really see how her response was so carefully worded. I was just reading the newspaper accounts and response with a critical eye and thought that the trainer wasn't being treated correctly, particularly by the otherwise very smart folks here.

[Delawaretrainer]

How has the trainer not been treated correctly? Nothing has happened. Her response was very vague. Her only response was that she wasn't there. If it didn't happen or it was the vets mistake and sh never ordered it wouldn't she say that?

Funny, I am very defensive of trainers, I think there is a witch hunt going on out there. The trainer responsibility rule is necessary but very unfair. every once in a while trainers can prove contamination in hay etc, on mysterious positives but after spending enormous amounts of money. Regulators can't catch the real trainers who cheat with ridiculous stats so they get people for a billionth of a irrelevant amount of muscle relaxer like the stakes case in ky. I even see amateurs considering lasix like heroine that horses are addicted to making trainers look like monsters.

What has been reported is that her vet was caught performing a prohibited treatment to a horse that was in. You can't do that. She should be doing damage control, this could seriously damage her career. If there was a reasonable explanation, I would this she would have made a statement to end the speculation.

[Stillriledup]

How has the trainer not been treated correctly? Nothing has happened. Her response was very vague. Her only response was that she wasn't there. If it didn't happen or it was the vets mistake and sh never ordered it wouldn't she say that?

Funny, I am very defensive of trainers, I think there is a witch hunt going on out there. The trainer responsibility rule is necessary but very unfair. every once in a while trainers can prove contamination in hay etc, on mysterious positives but after spending enormous amounts of money. Regulators can't catch the real trainers who cheat with ridiculous stats so they get people for a billionth of a irrelevant amount of muscle relaxer like the stakes case in ky. I even see amateurs considering lasix like heroine that horses are addicted to making trainers look like monsters.

What has been reported is that her vet was caught performing a prohibited treatment to a horse that was in. You can't do that. She should be doing damage control, this could seriously damage her career. If there was a reasonable explanation, I would this she would have made a statement to end the speculation.

Great post. I think that regulators can't catch the real cheats because they only try to catch them using tainted blood or urine...a trainer can get a horse who runs Beyers in the 60s for his entire career and then runs 100 in the new barn and somehow, unless they have tainted fluids, they view it as all legit.

Law enforcement in this country catches many criminals by putting 2 and 2 together...be nice if racing started doing the same.

[therussmeister]

Law enforcement convicts criminals by putting evidence together. There is likely countless times law enforcement knows who the criminals are, but without evidence there is no conviction... be nice if posters started to understand due process.

[Stillriledup]

Law enforcement convicts criminals by putting evidence together. There is likely countless times law enforcement knows who the criminals are, but without evidence there is no conviction... be nice if posters started to understand due process.

My point was that in law enforcement, you don't actually need a videotape of the crime to convict. In racing, you need racing's version of videotape which is tainted blood/urine. No other way in racing to convict.

[5k-claim]

Law enforcement in this country catches many criminals by putting 2 and 2 together...be nice if racing started doing the same.My point was that in law enforcement, you don't actually need a videotape of the crime to convict. In racing, you need racing's version of videotape which is tainted blood/urine. No other way in racing to convict. One of the things Sabini used against Dutrow was syringes found in Dutrow's tack room. Syringes that may or may not have had Dutrow's fingerprints on them, and Dutrow has said he doesn't know how they got there.

Now back to whatever odd turn this thread had already migrated to.

.

[Stillriledup]

One of the things Sabini used against Dutrow was syringes found in Dutrow's tack room. Syringes that may or may not have had Dutrow's fingerprints on them, and Dutrow has said he doesn't know how they got there.

Now back to whatever odd turn this thread had already migrated to.

.

That's a good thing, hopefully there's more 'logic' used by authorities instead of just saying "we dont have tainted blood/urine' so you can continue to train, we can't catch you"

[PaceAdvantage]

Law enforcement convicts criminals by putting evidence together. There is likely countless times law enforcement knows who the criminals are, but without evidence there is no conviction... be nice if posters started to understand due process.And therein lies the reason why trainers won't ever be put in jail for "race fixing" when they run a horse who has been doped up...you need EVIDENCE that this trainer personally doped this horse, or ordered someone else to do it...and that evidence will be very tough to come by...

[cj]

And therein lies the reason why trainers won't ever be put in jail for "race fixing" when they run a horse who has been doped up...you need EVIDENCE that this trainer personally doped this horse, or ordered someone else to do it...and that evidence will be very tough to come by...

They would have to be under suspicion, and surveillance, and get caught in the act.

[RXB]

I already know, from a glance, that Cibelli has kept on winning, so kind of blows the Smear's theory, I'd say)

Before: 14/32 (44% wins)
Since: 4/28 (14% wins)

[RXB]

Update from Paulick, regarding the long delay in any resolution of the Cibelli matter.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/cibelli-case-two-months-and-counting/

Funny how Cibelli still hasn't regained that Midas touch she displayed at Tampa up until the event in question.

[chadk66]

what's strange is Berube says the track has house rules and the state has their rules they have to abide by. but he doesn't elaborate just what issues he's referring to. the old duck and weave.

[RXB]

DRF finally gets around to writing something about this issue. At least they added some interesting tidbits and info. The owner says Cibelli told her that the horse was mistakenly given an antibiotic injection. (That wasn't an antibiotic, Ms. Smith, and if Jane also told you it was "by accident"... #ha.ha.ha-ha.)

Also offers details of why Tampa could face legal ramifications were they to bar Cibelli before any state investigation/action is completed.

http://www.drf.com/news/tampa-bay-downs-owner-banned-vet-case-tells-accidental-injection

[chadk66]

someone is jerkin somebodies chain. you generally don't have three or four people in the stall to give a simple antibiotic. and why would they run the vet off if it was something that trivial. this is a nice big coverup.

[eqitec]

To help with this problem I've developed an iPad App called the iPharmaTrack for Equine Medication Administration record-keeping. See an image of one screen from the iPharmaTrack at the link below:

https://www.box.com/s/8rgtiqnva9ttc6ecx1ix

I've done this mostly in response to the new regs imposed by NYRA in response to the Horse and Rider Safety Report done last year. Little traction thus far from a marketing standpoint. It won't prevent cheating; but I hope it helps somewhat.

[lamboguy]

To help with this problem I've developed an iPad App called the iPharmaTrack for Equine Medication Administration record-keeping. See an image of one screen from the iPharmaTrack at the link below:

https://www.box.com/s/8rgtiqnva9ttc6ecx1ix

I've done this mostly in response to the new regs imposed by NYRA in response to the Horse and Rider Safety Report done last year. Little traction thus far from a marketing standpoint. It won't prevent cheating; but I hope it helps somewhat.this is tremendous for handicapping. i am sure that often there is more than on medication being used. i would love to know the stuff that some of the big trainers use for pre-race.

i must admit, this is a great start and if you had more of a database i would be happy to pay you for the information presented the way you did on your website.

[ArthurG]

Hello all..been reading for years and finally decided to join now that i have retired.

Tampa 7th race 4/10/13. #7 horse comes out 4-5 lanes and clearly impedes the #4 horse. #7 came in 2nd only by a head over #4. There was an inquiry/objection and the results stood. Trainer of the #7 was Jane Cibelli.

Brad Free and Michelle Yu on HRTV were stunned that the horse didn't come down.

Anybody else see this ?

[Stillriledup]

Hello all..been reading for years and finally decided to join now that i have retired.

Tampa 7th race 4/10/13. #7 horse comes out 4-5 lanes and clearly impedes the #4 horse. #7 came in 2nd only by a head over #4. There was an inquiry/objection and the results stood. Trainer of the #7 was Jane Cibelli.

Brad Free and Michelle Yu on HRTV were stunned that the horse didn't come down.

Anybody else see this ?

its funny but there was a controversial DQ that happened at Gulfstream involving Cibelli that came down....i believe it was a DQ that had its own thread here at PA.

[njstu44]

Jane is ice cold .I wonder why??

[Not4Love]

Yes and brad free is still picking her on top. I love it.

[Rise Over Run]

Yes and brad free is still picking her on top. I love it.
I think you mean Brad Thomas.

[proximity]

good call here lamboguy.:)