No More Saturday Mail For Dirt Poor USA

[NJ Stinks]

Nope. We can't even afford Saturday mail delivery anymore because the GOP are a bunch of nitwits. From the Washington Post website tonight:
_______________________________

U.S. Postal Service to end Saturday delivery

....The announcement comes as the agency continues to hemorrhage money, much of it because of a 2006 law [passed by the GOP, of course] requiring the Postal Service to set aside $5.5 billion a year for health benefits for future retirees. The agency defaulted twice on the payments last year after reaching its legal borrowing limit. It has closed hundreds of mail-sorting hubs, reduced hours at thousands of post offices and reduced the workforce by 193,000 to cut costs.

full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-postal-service-to-end-saturday-delivery/2013/02/06/16032b88-7084-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_story.html

[PaceAdvantage]

If guys like you can't even support the Republican stance on something like this, Lord have mercy if Democrats continue to run this country for another term after Obama....

I mean, this is a gimme....a NO BRAINER....and you scoff at it...why? Because a few union guys might be out looking for work soon?

If we can't CUT HERE, where the hell can we cut?

[Robert Goren]

I guess I will just have to wait until Monday for my mail from Gaspar Moschera.

[fast4522]

The absolute truth is that the more we run the government like a business where each department is accountable the better off we all will be no matter what party that you are in.

[ArlJim78]

once a week would be fine for me. frankly 80% of what they put in my box is litter that immediately goes in a trash bin.

[rastajenk]

We'll always have email.

[Tom]

If you want to voice your concern over this decision, the Post Office invites your comments......through their email address! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[JustRalph]

God forbid we actually have to pay for healthcare before it's overdue and a liability.

[cj's dad]

I"ll miss all those Saturdays I was late arriving to the racetrack waiting breathlessly for the next batch of mail I could chuck in the trash.

C,mon NJ, you can't see the effectiveness in this move ? Seriously ? Where is the downside ?

[Actor]

If guys like you can't even support the Republican stance on something like this, Exactly what is "the Republican stance on ... this?"

[PaceAdvantage]

Exactly what is "the Republican stance on ... this?"
What does it matter? They're powerless and irrelevant according to liberals.

Except they seem to be the one thing preventing Obama from actually achieving anything, because Republicans are always blamed by Democrats when they fail "yet again" to achieve any of their publicly stated political and/or economic goals....quite the boogey men these "irrelevant" Republicans appear to be. Some of the most powerful "gnats" ever invented it would seem.

[badcompany]

I have the worst mail person, ever. All she does is sit in the lobby, eat greasy food, listen to rap music on her Doctor Dre headphones, and whine about how tired she is. I don't think she even delivers the mail.

[Tom]

Wonder how much money is needed to keep paying pensions and getting zero back on the investment?

Pensions are not sustainable.
The UNION killed the Saturday deliveries.

[ArlJim78]

if cutting Saturday saves them $2 billion, and they lost $16 billion last year, if they cut out the other five days and don't deliver at all, would they still lose $4 billion a year?

[Actor]

Exactly what is "the Republican stance on ... this?"What does it matter?Why did you bring it up?

[Actor]

Pensions are not sustainable.Why not?

[Tom]

Seriously?
Why would a never ending pay out with no return on investment be unsustainable?

Surely you jest.

[badcompany]

Whenever I do get mail, it usually has chicken wing or pork fried rice grease on it.

Mostpost,

Is it a violation of USPS work rules to eat greasy food and listen to Godawful rap music while delivering the mail?

[ceejay]

It seems to me that the Postal Service is being told to act more like a business but is not really allowed to do so. For example, retiree health care I do not believe is required to be prefunded in the private sector (although it sometimes is) http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Analysis/_Blogs/NetNet/__DAILY_POSTS/CRSmemo_postal_rhb.pdf .

It is hard to imagine any actual business that wants to stay in business telling their customers that they will increase prices and reduce service.

If the senior management at the Postal Service was allowed to act like senior managers and guide the business they would have seen long ago that mail volumes would decrease with Internet usage increasing. Perhaps they could have refocused the business model. Become a Internet service provider? Embrace changes rather than fighting them? But, the Postal Service must have "major changes" approved by Congress.

To me, the best option might be privatization. But, it is hard to tell a private business that they must serve every address 5 or 6 days a week for the same price irrelevant of location. While $.46 to send a letter or pay any bill across town may be a fair value, it is surely unprofitable to send a letter from Hawaii to rural North Dakota for the same price which is part of the Postal Service mandate. It may be quite difficult to find a private entity to take on the service.

[dartman51]

I guess I will just have to wait until Monday for my mail from Gaspar Moschera.


Yeah, but, think of the money you'll save not being able to bet on his "can't miss" selections. :D

[dartman51]

What does it matter? They're powerless and irrelevant according to liberals.



There you go, channeling Hillary. :D

[mostpost]

If guys like you can't even support the Republican stance on something like this, Lord have mercy if Democrats continue to run this country for another term after Obama....

I mean, this is a gimme....a NO BRAINER....and you scoff at it...why? Because a few union guys might be out looking for work soon?

If we can't CUT HERE, where the hell can we cut?
As usual, NJ Stinks knows what he is talking about. As usual, You don't. The Postal deficit in 2012 was $15.9 Billion. Seventy Percent (70%) was the result of a bill passed by Republicans in the lame duck session of 2006. (Yes, there were Democrats who voted for it too-they are also idiots.)

The bill mandated that USPS pre-fund its heath and pension plans 75 years into the future. No other business does this No other government agency is required to do this. Obeying this mandate is costing the Post Office between five and ten billion dollars each year for ten years. How can any business survive when burdened with an arbitrary expense like that at the same time that their ability to raise prices is severely hindered.

Of the $15.1B deficit, 70% can be assigned to the prefunding requirement.
15% is caused by labor costs not related to the prefunding and 15% is caused by other factors.

There was a perfect example of the ignorance of the general public on this matter on my Comcast home page a few days ago. The story started with this sentence. "The United States Postal Service is planning to end Saturday delivery, thereby saving taxpayers $2.4 billion dollars." No, you fool, they are not saving taxpayers anything because taxes do not fund the United States Postal Service.

[mostpost]

If guys like you can't even support the Republican stance on something like this, Lord have mercy if Democrats continue to run this country for another term after Obama....

I mean, this is a gimme....a NO BRAINER....and you scoff at it...why? Because a few union guys might be out looking for work soon?

If we can't CUT HERE, where the hell can we cut?
Let me just state that I am kind of neutral on the issue of Saturday delivery. I just want to be sure the blame for this situation is placed where it belongs. On the Republican controlled Congress and its obsession with destroying any government run services.

[HUSKER55]

why should our government fund a service no one wants or needs?

[mostpost]

The absolute truth is that the more we run the government like a business where each department is accountable the better off we all will be no matter what party that you are in.
Why do you think there is no accountability? If a carrier misdelivers mail and a customer complains, he is told about it. If it is a persistent problem, he can be given a letter of warning, suspended and even fired.

Clerks are regularly tested on the scheme to be sure they are sorting the mail to the proper routes. Again disciplinary actions can be taken. (Of course nowadays most of the mail comes to the offices presorted to routes.)

Any postal employee dealing with the public; carriers, window clerks, and categories you would not know what they were if I did list them*) are expected to be courteous, efficient and knowledge able. If they are not, they are held accountable.

Of course all this depends on management being aware of any problems. You have to let us know. Remember that these people are human and they make mistakes, but if you have continuing problem call the office and report it.

Postmasters are also held accountable, the all report to someone at the Sectional Center. They have reports to fill out on misdelivered mail, delayed mail, and other factors. They have to run the office within budget. The Postal Service employs "Secret Shoppers" too assess how an office is being run.

The Post Office is like any other business and each employee is responsible to someone above him, event the Postmaster General. People do get fired.

[ceejay]

why should our government fund a service no one wants or needs?
I might refer you to the Postal Clause in article 1 section 8 of the United States Constitution.

Although I believe that cause along with much of the Constitution needs to be reinterpreted in light of modern technology, but that is another discussion.

[Marshall Bennett]

I have the worst mail person, ever.
I wouldn't bet on that. Mine often arrives after dark this time of year. On a couple occasions she never arrived at all. Flag was still up in the morning with mail in it waiting to go. I don't think she gets out of bed before noon.
The service stinks, I've complained about it, and it doesn't do a bit of good. Would suit me fine if they delivered once a week. Would probably take her a week to deliver it all anyway as slow as she is.

[ceejay]

Postmasters are also held accountable, the all report to someone at the Sectional Center. They have reports to fill out on misdelivered mail, delayed mail, and other factors. They have to run the office within budget. The Postal Service employs "Secret Shoppers" too assess how an office is being run.

The Post Office is like any other business and each employee is responsible to someone above him, event the Postmaster General. People do get fired.
As a customer, I have a hard time believing that. Last month for example, I received an important piece of mail for somebody whose address and zip code was in Virginia. I live in Oklahoma!

[FantasticDan]

As long as my PO remains open on Saturday and there's package delivery (yes on both), I'm happy.. :ThmbUp:

JpUqLjjKk4Y

[mostpost]

Whenever I do get mail, it usually has chicken wing or pork fried rice grease on it.

Mostpost,

Is it a violation of USPS work rules to eat greasy food and listen to Godawful rap music while delivering the mail?
I think chicken wings are OK, but pork fried rice is verboten. Godawful rap music is redundant.

If you are getting mail that is frequently or even occasionally stained with someone's greasy lunch you should complain. You should also complain about the carrier listening to loud rap music in your lobby. If you don't get satisfaction at your local office, USPS has an 800 number for such things. I can tell you that those calls are taken seriously. I can't recall the number right now. I will look it up and post it later in this thread.

An aside: I do not know your carriers situation. Does she use a vehicle? Is there a place where she can have her lunch nearby? A place that is inside out of the rain and cold. Perhaps your lobby is the only place she can comfortably and conveniently eat her lunch.

But if that is the case, she owes it to you and the other tenants to do so courteously and unobtrusively. Turn off the I Pod, clean up after yourself, use wet wipes when you are through eating.

ETA: Found it.
Call 1-800-ASK-USPS® (800-275-8777)
M-F - 8:00 am - 8:30 pm ET
Sat - 8:00 am - 6:00 pm ET
Sun/Holidays* - Closed
*Except Martin Luther King Day, President's Day, Columbus Day, and Veterans Day with hours from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm ET

[Tom]

N8BPcNUQy-0

[senortout]

Its quite simple why they may be able to sustain....people on pensions die after a while, I'm planning on it, are you?

Seriously?
Why would a never ending pay out with no return on investment be unsustainable?

Surely you jest.

[Valuist]

Its quite simple why they may be able to sustain....people on pensions die after a while, I'm planning on it, are you?

That's it. Here's a great idea for all the government entities that have pension obligations; hire a hitman and take out all those drawing pensions. Greece should've thought of that. You could probably cut the population of Athens by 1/3.

[JustRalph]

why should our government fund a service no one wants or needs?

Excellent point. I believe the postal service attempts to fund itself, but in this day and age they could stop about 50% of deliveries.

I know I could do without it

[Robert Goren]

I find it pretty interesting that USPS is stopping Saturday deliveries just as UPS is revving up its Saturday delivery service.

[NJ Stinks]

C,mon NJ, you can't see the effectiveness in this move ? Seriously ? Where is the downside ?

The downside is all the people that rely on getting Saturday delivery. That group includes people in rural areas and senior citizens everywhere.

I'd like to know what percentage of the country does not have access to a computer in their home.

[fast4522]

As Mostpost responds,

'Why do you think there is no accountability? If a carrier misdelivers mail and a customer complains, he is told about it. If it is a persistent problem, he can be given a letter of warning, suspended and even fired."

I can not kick the little guy, but department heads can not manage to save their lives. Each department head has a budget that should reflect the business for that department. No matter if you have to set aside retirement funds or not, if those department heads sink into the red like they are doing they should be fired. Next your going to say we do not know anything because we don't work in the government, bullshit on you because this country is broke.

All across this country Postal workers and everyone else does a great job, The group Alabama comes to mind with the following tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38b3RVg7Jpo

[tbwinner]

The downside is all the people that rely on getting Saturday delivery. That group includes people in rural areas and senior citizens everywhere.

I'd like to know what percentage of the country does not have access to a computer in their home.

Who relies on Saturday delivery?

Why Senior Citizens?

I just don't get what you're saying.

[Actor]

Seriously?
Why would a never ending pay out with no return on investment be unsustainable?

Surely you jest.Why is there no return on the investment?

Because the government requires that the retirement fund invest only in government securities.
Because the government does not allow the fund to invest in T-bills and other securities available to the general public. Instead the fund must invest in securities designated for the fund.
Because the government chooses not the honor the debt they owe the fund.
Because the government now calls the debt an "entitlement," a switch from the former more accurate term "unfunded liability."
Because the government has effectively declared selective bankruptcy, choosing to honor debts owned to foreigners while welching on debts owed its own citizens.

[JustRalph]

The downside is all the people that rely on getting Saturday delivery. That group includes people in rural areas and senior citizens everywhere.

I'd like to know what percentage of the country does not have access to a computer in their home.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0931441.html

68% according to census data. 90 % of those have Internet.

The census data is available in csv and excel format, but I used the above for board purposes.

[mostpost]

Excellent point. I believe the postal service attempts to fund itself, but in this day and age they could stop about 50% of deliveries.

I know I could do without it
In a sense you are looking at it the wrong way. That mail that you could do without is important to the people who send it out. The people who pay to mail those catalogs etc. count on that to get their products before the public. They know that less than one out of ten of those pieces ever gets looked at and few of those get acted upon, but that is enough for them.

In a later post (than yours above) you stated that 68% of homes have a computer. I used my mathematical skills to determine that 32% of homes do not have a computer. One third of America would not get too see all of those fabulous offers if it were not for bulk business mail. (Postal employees are not allowed to say "Junk mail."

[Tom]

Why is there no return on the investment?

No, the checks they send out as pension checks are expenses, no return on them, money gone. that money could be used to......pay for Saturday deliveries.

NJ - why do people depend on Saturday deliveries?
What is so important it can't come Friday or Monday?
That is, other than my HP magazine which comes halfway through the BC races every year!:D

[NJ Stinks]

Who relies on Saturday delivery?

Why Senior Citizens?

I just don't get what you're saying.

If the 68% of us (thanks for the info, Ralph) that have access to a computer at home did not have that access, do you think we would even be discussing the elimination of Saturday mail delivery?

My point is that a lot of people can't sit around and check stuff on a computer at home over the weekend. They look forward to their Saturday mail delivery just as the vast majority of us did before the computer spoiled us rotten.

Anyway, why the GOP wants to screw around with a great American institution like the Postal Service is beyond me. Whatever the reason, I have no doubt that it has little or nothing to do with the cost of Saturday mail delivery.

[mostpost]

No, the checks they send out as pension checks are expenses, no return on them, money gone. that money could be used to......pay for Saturday deliveries.

NJ - why do people depend on Saturday deliveries?
What is so important it can't come Friday or Monday?
That is, other than my HP magazine which comes halfway through the BC races every year!:D
In other words, Old people can starve as long as you get your mail on Saturday. :faint:

[Tom]

If the 68% of us (thanks for the info, Ralph) that have access to a computer at home did not have that access, do you think we would even be discussing the elimination of Saturday mail delivery?

But that is the point - life goes on. We no longer buy buggy whips, either.
Save half of your Friday mail then knock your socks off Saturday.

Old people starve? Get a life, dude. MOST people do not have a pension - they still eat. I have no pension - I will eat when I retire. Pensions bankrupted GM and they had to be bailed out. Kodak is now a nothing company and are backing out of the pensions. Pensions are NOT sustainable. Pensions kill businesses.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why did you bring it up?Because of this line posted by NJ Stinks:

"The announcement comes as the agency continues to hemorrhage money, much of it because of a 2006 law [passed by the GOP, of course] requiring the Postal Service to set aside $5.5 billion a year for health benefits for future retirees."

[PaceAdvantage]

As usual, NJ Stinks knows what he is talking about. As usual, You don't. The Postal deficit in 2012 was $15.9 Billion. Seventy Percent (70%) was the result of a bill passed by Republicans in the lame duck session of 2006. (Yes, there were Democrats who voted for it too-they are also idiots.)

The bill mandated that USPS pre-fund its heath and pension plans 75 years into the future. No other business does this No other government agency is required to do this.The US Post Office must pay a price for thinking it can dole out such cushy health and pension plans...the chickens have come home to roost.

If they can't handle it, tough. Maybe they should renegotiate their union contracts and obligations going forward...

[badcompany]

There was a time when older generations sacrificed for their kids. The Welfare State and its by product, the entitlement mentality, has warped morals to the point where old people won't even give up their Saturday mail. :ThmbDown:

[newtothegame]

As usual, NJ Stinks knows what he is talking about. As usual, You don't. The Postal deficit in 2012 was $15.9 Billion. Seventy Percent (70%) was the result of a bill passed by Republicans in the lame duck session of 2006. (Yes, there were Democrats who voted for it too-they are also idiots.)

The bill mandated that USPS pre-fund its heath and pension plans 75 years into the future. No other business does this No other government agency is required to do this. Obeying this mandate is costing the Post Office between five and ten billion dollars each year for ten years. How can any business survive when burdened with an arbitrary expense like that at the same time that their ability to raise prices is severely hindered.

Of the $15.1B deficit, 70% can be assigned to the prefunding requirement.
15% is caused by labor costs not related to the prefunding and 15% is caused by other factors.

There was a perfect example of the ignorance of the general public on this matter on my Comcast home page a few days ago. The story started with this sentence. "The United States Postal Service is planning to end Saturday delivery, thereby saving taxpayers $2.4 billion dollars." No, you fool, they are not saving taxpayers anything because taxes do not fund the United States Postal Service.

I really love how you on the left just throw out numbers to fit your agendas......
Above you say "Of the $15.1B deficit, 70% can be assigned to the prefunding requirement.".....My question is how is this so? A little further in this thread Pace attributes that number of prefunding at about 5 + billion per year.....
How is 5 billion 70% of 15.1 billion?
Help me to understand where you are getting these numbers.....
Even if you subtract the 5 billion from the deficit (15.1 billion) and tke it from there, you would have 10 billion deficit (before prefunding) and 5 billion (funding)(which is only 50%).
Someone either left out some numbers or someone is fibbing!

Next, when it was brought up that 68% of househalds have computer and 90% have internet access, you on the left chose to use the 68% number....why???
I can check my mail, go to any websites, order merchandise, pay bills right from my phone. I dont need a computer so why use the 68% number? Ahhh because it looks like more people dont have access to the internet world...gt it!! :lol:

[elysiantraveller]

:confused:

I guess I'm just confused that a "business" that is losing billions of dollars a year has found a way to offset some losses and people have a problem with that?...

:confused:

[HUSKER55]

it could be worse....imagine Big Ed getting involved.. subtract the gain and divide by the savings and the multiply by the smudge factor and then throw in a democrat:D

[newtothegame]

:confused:

I guess I'm just confused that a "business" that is losing billions of dollars a year has found a way to offset some losses and people have a problem with that?...

:confused:
Confused are some Elysian but, it's not you. Websters needs to redefine "business" as in private sector and public sector as they both play by totally different rules.

[Actor]

No, the checks they send out as pension checks are expenses, no return on them, money gone. that money could be used to......pay for Saturday deliveries.You obviously have no idea how the Civil Service Retirement System works. I'll get back to you.

[PaceAdvantage]

You obviously have no idea how the Civil Service Retirement System works. I'll get back to you.Works? Isn't that a poor choice of words?

[Hosshead]

What about the other side of this?
Outgoing mail. Like a bill you are paying.

The post office will still be open on Sat., but if you mail a payment from there, will it be sorted and go out?
Or, not even go out for 2 more days, and not delivered until 5+ days?

The credit card companies (late fees) are going to love this !!

[rastajenk]

I find it pretty interesting that USPS is stopping Saturday deliveries just as UPS is revving up its Saturday delivery service.I don't think that is too tough to figure out.

[Actor]

What about the other side of this?
Outgoing mail. Like a bill you are paying.

The post office will still be open on Sat., but if you mail a payment from there, will it be sorted and go out?
Or, not even go out for 2 more days, and not delivered until 5+ days?

The credit card companies (late fees) are going to love this !!Where I live any mail dropped off on Saturday or Sunday is mixed with mail dropped off on Monday. There are signs on the mail drops explaining this. It's been that way for years.

[JustRalph]

Where I live any mail dropped off on Saturday or Sunday is mixed with mail dropped off on Monday. There are signs on the mail drops explaining this. It's been that way for years.

Same here. Drop it after 4p Friday and it stays in the box until Monday at 4p

[mostpost]

I really love how you on the left just throw out numbers to fit your agendas......
Above you say "Of the $15.1B deficit, 70% can be assigned to the prefunding requirement.".....My question is how is this so? A little further in this thread Pace attributes that number of prefunding at about 5 + billion per year.....
How is 5 billion 70% of 15.1 billion?
Help me to understand where you are getting these numbers.....
Even if you subtract the 5 billion from the deficit (15.1 billion) and tke it from there, you would have 10 billion deficit (before prefunding) and 5 billion (funding)(which is only 50%).
Someone either left out some numbers or someone is fibbing!
Go to the link in the Original post. In that story there is another link "Lost $15.9 billion. In the fifth paragraph of that story is the information that $11.1 billion of the shortfall can be traced to the pension/healthcare requirement.
Pace was referring to the annual payment but some of the payments were missed.

Next, when it was brought up that 68% of househalds have computer and 90% have internet access, you on the left chose to use the 68% number....why???
I can check my mail, go to any websites, order merchandise, pay bills right from my phone. I dont need a computer so why use the 68% number? Ahhh because it looks like more people dont have access to the internet world...gt it!! :lol:
I thought maybe my reading skills were declining, but apparently it is yours that are bad. Here is what Just Ralph posted. I have bolded the words you need to pay attention to.
68% according to census data. 90 % of those have Internet. That means 90% of the 68% have internet. Put another way only 61.2% have access to the internet. Or four out of every ten people do not have access. Get back to me when you have completed your reading comprehension course. :lol:
ETA: you can check out JR's post at #40

[mostpost]

What about the other side of this?
Outgoing mail. Like a bill you are paying.

The post office will still be open on Sat., but if you mail a payment from there, will it be sorted and go out?
Or, not even go out for 2 more days, and not delivered until 5+ days?

The credit card companies (late fees) are going to love this !!
Not sure if this is still the case, but when I was working our window services were open until noon. The office closed completely at three. We had trucks come in at one and threeish to pick up outgoing mail. Everything in the office by those times went out.

One thing to remember, the trucks which transport mail from the Sectional sortingcenters to the local offices and vice versa are usually not Postal Service trucks. They are contract providers and the contracts are already in place regarding when and which days they make their runs.
ETA: This all applies only to mail dropped in the Post Office or in the collection boxes immediately outside the Post Office. Mail dropped in a collection box on the street after the collection time stays there until the next collection.

[mostpost]

I find it pretty interesting that USPS is stopping Saturday deliveries just as UPS is revving up its Saturday delivery service.
USPS will continue to deliver parcels on Saturday. On the other hand, USPS parcel business is a drop in the bucket compared to UPS.

[FantasticDan]

Where I live any mail dropped off on Saturday or Sunday is mixed with mail dropped off on Monday. There are signs on the mail drops explaining this. It's been that way for years.This is at a post office that's open Saturday?

In my town, the PO is open until 1pm on SAT, and mail pickup there is just like a weekday, except the final pickup time is 4:45 instead of 5:45. And the mail goes out just like a weekday.

[JustRalph]

Prefunding Myth: The Postal Service is unfairly required to fully fund 75 years of retiree health care benefits in 10 years with an annual $5.5 billion payment. If only the prefunding requirement were eliminated the Postal Service would be on a path to prosperity.

Prefunding Fact: USPS has to save now, or it will not be able to afford retiree health care later. If they can’t, taxpayers will be on the hook for billions of dollars.

To protect taxpayers from covering USPS large unfunded liability on retiree health care benefits, Congress mandated that USPS make a series of catch-up payments, often called “prefunding,” starting in 2007 and going through 2017. These catch-up payments will ensure USPS has saved enough money now to meet these obligations later. Within the next few years, the annual costs of paying current benefits will dwarf current costs. Saving now is the only way to make this affordable later, and prevent a taxpayer funded bailout. Though the Postal Service was created to be a self-sustaining entity- taxpayers stand behind this large and growing liability. If the Postal Service were allowed to immediately cease making these catch-up payments, it would have an unfunded liability of nearly $100 billion by 2017. This would clearly be an unaffordable burden for an entity whose core business and revenue is steadily shrinking. It would likely result in a taxpayer funded bailout of postal workers’ retiree health care payments. The annual deficit of the Postal Service now easily exceeds its entire annual catch-up payment, illustrating its fiscal problems run much deeper.

[mostpost]

Prefunding Myth: The Postal Service is unfairly required to fully fund 75 years of retiree health care benefits in 10 years with an annual $5.5 billion payment. If only the prefunding requirement were eliminated the Postal Service would be on a path to prosperity.
Your first sentence is correct. It is unfair and unnecessary to require the United States Postal Service to prefund its retiee health benefits. NO other government agency is required to do this, As to your second sentence, the prefunding requirement is not the sole problem the Postal Service has. No one is saying that it is,

Prefunding Fact: USPS has to save now, or it will not be able to afford retiree health care later. If they can’t, taxpayers will be on the hook for billions of dollars.

To protect taxpayers from covering USPS large unfunded liability on retiree health care benefits, Congress mandated that USPS make a series of catch-up payments, often called “prefunding,” starting in 2007 and going through 2017. These catch-up payments will ensure USPS has saved enough money now to meet these obligations later. Within the next few years, the annual costs of paying current benefits will dwarf current costs. Saving now is the only way to make this affordable later, and prevent a taxpayer funded bailout. Though the Postal Service was created to be a self-sustaining entity- taxpayers stand behind this large and growing liability. If the Postal Service were allowed to immediately cease making these catch-up payments, it would have an unfunded liability of nearly $100 billion by 2017. This would clearly be an unaffordable burden for an entity whose core business and revenue is steadily shrinking. It would likely result in a taxpayer funded bailout of postal workers’ retiree health care payments. The annual deficit of the Postal Service now easily exceeds its entire annual catch-up payment, illustrating its fiscal problems run much deeper.
This use of the term "unfunded liability" is one that should be banned and perpetrators should be shot. "Unfunded liability" is defined as an expense an organization has in the future which it does not have funds to pay in the present. When you say that USPS will have an unfunded liability of $100B in 2017 it does not mean that in 2017 USPS will fall $100B short of paying its retiree health benefits for that year. It means that in 2018 through some date in the distant future (probably 75 years or 2092) USPS will be short $100B in total.

This is a moving target. Each year USPS adds money to the fund. Each year ir pays out benefits. It may be necessary to increase employee contributions. I do not get free health care. I pay a premium each month. It may be necessary to reduce benefits. It may be necessary, God forbid, to control the cost of services and curtail providers profits. What is not necessary is to prefund.

[sandpit]

This entire story is much ado about nothing. I was in a small town in Alaska in 1993, not too far from Anchorage, and they received mail service 2 days a week, and remarkably, those people got along fine in life. I'm still in contact with people there, and the service is still the same. We could all live the exact same way without missing a beat, especially since most of the stuff that comes out of any mailbox probably makes it in the garbage can before it gets in the house.

[newtothegame]

I thought maybe my reading skills were declining, but apparently it is yours that are bad. Here is what Just Ralph posted. I have bolded the words you need to pay attention to.
. That means 90% of the 68% have internet. Put another way only 61.2% have access to the internet. Or four out of every ten people do not have access. Get back to me when you have completed your reading comprehension course. :lol:
ETA: you can check out JR's post at #40
Oops, my mistake, I misread what Ralph typed....;)
But, it still doesnt change the validity of the argument. His numbers were from 2010. Each year , there was a significant increase from the prior year and now we are in 2013 so you do the math. Next, how many of those homes that do not have computers, have smart phones? I can access the web, pay bills, retrieve emails etc etc from my phone. So, point is, it is SUBSTANTIALLY higher then the 68% you on the left are using.
Next, from post 46 (pace's) I got the 5.5 billion number. If the USPS is losing 15.9 billion, how is that anywhere near 70%??? I read the newspaper article and didnt find the seventy percent number you referenced but either way, 5.5 is no where near 70% of 15.9.
Lastly, you and I both know Saturday delivery (and its potential loss) will mean NOTHING! People will adapt. How did we ever get by without it prior????
The only relevance it has for you is the union losses. You wouldnt give two cents about saturday except for the union job losses. If those jobs were kept and redirected, you would be fine with it!
As to your comment about "unfunded liability", you don't like that term because it is exactly as you stated......a liability in the future for which at present you do not have the funds to pay for.
Why anyone would not want to make sure future obligations are guaranteed amazes me. But hey, it's union pensions....I could care less if they get funded or not! After all, you havent ensured my pension in the private sector is funded.....I am responsible for that! :lol:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Well, knowing that my IL state government owes somewhere between $60 Billion to $90 Billion to the IL state employee pension fund, and is of course in no way capable of paying for it NOW, I think it wise that the Postal Service is paying to fund the pensions they will owe. It may be excessive, and they did promise their employees very generous pensions, but fund it they're going to have to, or go back on those promises and cause a lot of damage.

[Hosshead]

This is at a post office that's open Saturday?

In my town, the PO is open until 1pm on SAT, and mail pickup there is just like a weekday, except the final pickup time is 4:45 instead of 5:45. And the mail goes out just like a weekday.

Same here.
If you bring your mail into the P.O. on Saturday (before the afternoon pickup), it goes out on Saturday....... not Monday !

Hope that doesn't change. But it probably will.

[badcompany]

Well, knowing that my IL state government owes somewhere between $60 Billion to $90 Billion to the IL state employee pension fund, and is of course in no way capable of paying for it NOW, I think it wise that the Postal Service is paying to fund the pensions they will owe. It may be excessive, and they did promise their employees very generous pensions, but fund it they're going to have to, or go back on those promises and cause a lot of damage.

Agree, especially when you consider that P.O revenue is almost certain to continue its downward trajectory, unless you believe that companies will get worse at online marketing and that people will conclude that they really liked waiting days for a letter rather than getting it immediately via email.

[Rookies]

February 1, 1969- Before Woodstock! :eek:

That's when the Great White North stopped Saturday mail delivery. It is crystal clear here that the days of Canada Post may be numbered, especially because my country is 1/10th the size of the U.S. Management is working like mad to gin up action in the flyer market for mail order/ small biz to keep themselves alive.

Due to the Internet, personal mail has shrunk critically and is the purview of mainly seniors and rural areas (which cost more.) There have been guesstimates, that absenting the biz junk mail, a personal letter might cost $10 !:eek:

Disclaimer: For a brief period in the late 70s, I worked for them as an inside worker (aka a Tong War between Mgt. and CUPW). However, after 2 strikes in 6 months, I had to leave.:rolleyes: Not, that I was opposed to the strikes mind you- but did want to eat and found a different/ better job!

Things are much better now, but I'm sure there are concerns as stations and mailboxes vanish...

In this age, I'm not sure what the best solution is.

[cj's dad]

Found this for ya:

[FantasticDan]

BUMP

Saturday mail survives.. for now..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/04/10/postal-service-withdraws-plan-to-end-saturday-mail-delivery/

[Tom]

60% of the people are in favor of it, the USPS wants to do it, but the idiots in Congress say no???

In other words, the message is continue to lose billions of dollars.

What a pathetic bunch of losers on both sides of the aisle.
Come to thing of it, that is no longer the correct term to use.
From now on, it will be both sides of the trough.

To vote yes, one oink, to vote no, two oinks.

[NJ Stinks]

60% of the people are in favor of it, the USPS wants to do it, but the idiots in Congress say no???

In other words, the message is continue to lose billions of dollars.

What a pathetic bunch of losers on both sides of the aisle.
Come to thing of it, that is no longer the correct term to use.
From now on, it will be both sides of the trough.

To vote yes, one oink, to vote no, two oinks.

We save $2B a year if we cancel Saturday mail. Cry me a river. :rolleyes:

The Iraq War cost $10B a month for 105 months. That's $1.05T total. We could have paid for Saturday mail for the next 500 years if GWB of the GOP didn't happen.

[redshift1]

We could have paid for Saturday mail for the next 500 years if GWB of the GOP didn't happen.

On the bright side ole GWB probably put the democrats in the oval office for the next 500 years. God after all did have a plan for George.

.

[PaceAdvantage]

On the bright side ole GWB probably put the democrats in the oval office for the next 500 years.Oh please, please tell me someone out there (all I need is one) actually believes this nonsense... :lol:

[newtothegame]

We save $2B a year if we cancel Saturday mail. Cry me a river. :rolleyes:

The Iraq War cost $10B a month for 105 months. That's $1.05T total. We could have paid for Saturday mail for the next 500 years if GWB of the GOP didn't happen.
Well there we have it.....such a valid argument as well....:faint:

"Because we did this in ........ we should not worry about .......this now!!!

[sammy the sage]

Oh please, please tell me someone out there (all I need is one) actually believes this nonsense... :lol:

the oval office as we now know it or the USA....won't exist in the current form in 500 years :sleeping:

[Tom]

We save $2B a year if we cancel Saturday mail. Cry me a river. :rolleyes:

The Iraq War cost $10B a month for 105 months. That's $1.05T total. We could have paid for Saturday mail for the next 500 years if GWB of the GOP didn't happen.

With all due respect, that is a stupid comment.
We are 16 trillion in the hole and going deeper by the minute, and all you can do is say Bush spent too much so we roll over and stop?

How many $2B cuts do you suppose we could implement today, if the idiot ever got off the golf course and rolled up his sleeves?

Your attitude is a perfect example of why this country is going down the tubes. You poo poo a $2B savings and yet are ready and willing to steal from the successful among us. Nice.

[Robert Goren]

The 3 congressmen and 2 senators, all republicans , from Nebraska were very vocal about their wanting to keep Saturday mail delivery. I think that was probably true of most congressmen from rural areas. In rural Nebraska anything that has to with the mail including post office closures and Saturday delivery is a very touchy subject. UPS and Fed Ex does service a lot of those areas. Personally, I could live with 3 day week delivery even though I buy quite a bit of stuff from ebay and almost of it comes by USPS.

[NJ Stinks]

Well there we have it.....such a valid argument as well....:faint:

"Because we did this in ........ we should not worry about .......this now!!!

It wasn't an argument, Newt. It was a fact.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It wasn't an argument, Newt. It was a fact.

No, it is becoming a default argument against any sort of reductions to spending. Not just by you, but you have certainly fallen back upon the "two wars on a credit card" gripe as some sort of justification for ignoring present day budget/debt/deficit dilemmas. We get it, we all get it. But since you can't cut the cost of the Iraq war at this point, it is really sort of a meaningless retort to every instance of proposed reductions. I'm sure that there are plenty of expenditures that we still engage in that would make the argument much better - "hey, if we're going to spend billions providing weapons to the nuts over yonder, surely we can provide letters on Saturday to Americans!" - just works a lot better than making the case for some expense based upon something that we can't change. The way you present it basically makes the case that there is never anything worthy of cutting because of the cost of Iraq. What point does that even make?

[Tom]

The left is incapable of intelligent discussion.
They have to change the subject, blame others, or just outright lie about anything that goes against their cult leader.

There are not like us.
They walk among us, but they are not like us.

[NJ Stinks]

What point does that even make?

One point is that people will bitch endlessly about the cost of Saturday mail but never said a thing about the money spent on Iraq. The other point is where was Tommy when we were blowing a trillion in Iraq? I missed all his posts about expressing concern. But Saturday mail? Oh yea. Mr. Indignation is all over Saturday mail. :rolleyes:

[NJ Stinks]

There are not like us.
They walk among us, but they are not like us.

Thanks for the compliment.

[johnhannibalsmith]

One point is that people will bitch endlessly about the cost of Saturday mail but never said a thing about the money spent on Iraq. ...

Yeah, that point we all get. That's fine, but obviously that's not everyone's perspective. If you are limiting yourself to throwing it back at people for selective outrage or something, okay, I guess. I'd like to think that given our current financial state of affairs that we could be realistic about some things without having everything measured against prior expenditures with political overtones.

I've been one of the few that has stood behind USPS as being at least a useful boondoggle that is actually a defined function. But even I can see the merit in trimming this one a bit in this particular way - and I use USPS almost exclusively. What bills I do pay go through mail and always will as long as it is available. Not only do I dislike most of the alternative methods, I actually like to support USPS. I thought your post was a simple dismissal of the idea of cutting what we can because of money spent on a war, which seems like a silly approach to defending a culture of unwillingness to deal with the country's poor financial health.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks
One point is that people will bitch endlessly about the cost of Saturday mail but never said a thing about the money spent on Iraq. ...

1. Wrong. Do a search - I was hollaring about that way back when.
2. So what? We live today,not back then. We need to dela with today's problems, not roll up in the fetal postion and go to sleep muttering....Bush did it, Bush did it.
3. You standard for Obama is no higher than Bush? Seems like you wasted an election if all you expect is the same old same old.

[newtothegame]

If I am not mistaken, it was another left member of this board suggesting we shouldn't use older numbers for referencing todays problems...yet, here is another lefty saying we should (to make a case for more spending).....
can you all on the left at least stay together??? sheeze!!!! :bang:

[HUSKER55]

here is a thought that would save everybody. have a new class of mail for bills, checks and important items. that gets delivered on Mondays. anything else is by request and gets delivered on Wednesday.

post office is now down to 2 days a week, people can use email and the junk gets weighed at the landfill and a bill sent to the advertisers for not using email.

personally, I prefer direct deposit and bills by email. I think it is safer. But...that is just me. Actually, for the amount of mail we do get, twice a month would probably do the trick.

[Tom]

If I am not mistaken, it was another left member of this board suggesting we shouldn't use older numbers for referencing todays problems...yet, here is another lefty saying we should (to make a case for more spending).....
can you all on the left at least stay together??? sheeze!!!! :bang:

The left would rather assign blame and point fingers than fix things.
It takes up all their time managing the message instead of the results.
That, and libs have never fixed anything.