Big A Inner Track "specialists"

[Stillriledup]

Is there such a thing, or, is it just that a quality horse will flourish on the inner track due to weaker competition?

If there is a 'horse for course' angle on the inner, is it a difference in dirt composition that makes some horses especially like the footing?

What could it be other than just a quality horse beating up on inferior foes?

Won Great Classic is racing Thursday, he seems to race better and faster (Beyerwise) on the inner than he does at other places and has 3 large margin victories on view, he appears as an HFC but he's a decent horse in real life, why might be be 'slower' on other tracks?

[Robert Goren]

The inner track this year has had several front running golden rails this year. If has caught a couple of them then his Beyers would spike while closers racing on the outside would see theirs drop. I have seen several horse close on the rail too. Their numbers probably saw a spike too. Sunday was a day when front speed held on better than usual.

[classhandicapper]

Years ago I had a few track buddies that insisted to me they were profitable every Aqueduct inner track meet by keeping a list of horses that had moved up on the surface in previous meets and playing them the following year(s). Back then though, there were no stats broken up by track and the DRF only had 10 races in it. Those old inner dirt races used to drop out of the PPs and the casual player could not see them. You also couldn't get lifetime races as easily as you can now via Formulator. You'd have to keep lists with details or have a room full of old DRFs to look through. So if it was profitable back then, it may not be now.

[MightBeSosa]

there must be 100 factors that used to be an edge that are not anymore, at least in theory.

[Robert Fischer]

At times it's basically a little bit of a class drop, a little bit of an early speed bias, and maybe even off-track(today or last race) rolled into one.

[classhandicapper]

At times it's basically a little bit of a class drop, a little bit of an early speed bias, and maybe even off-track(today or last race) rolled into one.

That was one reason I never really pursued making lists etc...

What some people were seeing as a surface preference, I often saw as something related to running styles, biases, track configuration etc... I guess there ARE horses that actually prefer one dirt surface a lot more than another, but IMO it's hard to separate that from other factors or simple randomness.

[Robert Goren]

Certain horses hate certain types of tracks while others love them. Of that there is no doubt. Most horses it doesn't matter much one way or the other. It is pretty hard for the handicapper to know which horse is which, but the sharp betting stables do if the horse has been around long enough. That is the the rub. Horses race so seldom these day, it is hard to get a read on them. Although I don't do it yet, it might pay to keep track of which horses run well( and those who don't) on sealed tracks. Sealed tracks are the one big condition change that exists in racing today that doesn't have ton of stuff written on it.

[DeltaLover]

Is there such a thing, or, is it just that a quality horse will flourish on the inner track due to weaker competition?


In my opinion Aqueduct inner track is the most probable for a horse to develop speciality for.

One of the boldest examples recently, should be Calibracoa who was a real monster on the inner and just a good horse anywhere else.

This is one of the factors why I believe that the recent Withers winner, Revolutionary will be proven much lower than the expectations when he will be mover to a different track...

[cj]

Boom Towner!

[Tom]

Trumpeter Swan

[Harvhorse]

I favor horses stabled at aqu e.g. Rudy rodrigus, Jacobson Violette.

[Stillriledup]

Boom Towner!

Was that a Mike Hushion horse ridden by a girl jockey? Could Diane Nelson have been part of the Boom Towner success story???

[johnhannibalsmith]

Years ago I had a few track buddies that insisted to me they were profitable every Aqueduct inner track meet by keeping a list of horses that had moved up on the surface in previous meets and playing them the following year(s). Back then though, there were no stats broken up by track and the DRF only had 10 races in it. Those old inner dirt races used to drop out of the PPs and the casual player could not see them....

Yepper. I used to live for the inner. Not only horses for courses but guys like Alex McPherson would show up and seemed to always have live stock from up north that went overlooked at least the first time they ran. I even kept track of horses that showed unmanageable early speed in turf routes elsewhere and then faded badly to finish nowhere and would bet them on the switch to the inner when going two turns almost blindly at huge odds. I have no idea if it was actually a profitable angle over the long haul, but it sure seemed like it at the time when I was too preoccupied with other trivial aspects of life like actually having a real job to document my plays the way I would have liked to.

I've always wondered if the old AQU inner meets were really that much easier with what seemed like a cache of unfallible angles or if it just seemed that way to me at the time because of the way I was playing.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... a cache of unfallible angles ....

I even invented words to describe how wonderful it was. :D

[BIG49010]

Channing Hill is starting to pick up some wins, didn't he used to be pretty good on the inner?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Channing Hill is starting to pick up some wins, didn't he used to be pretty good on the inner?

I'll get blasted for this, but I've always thought this guy was arguably one of the best jocks out there. I'm guessing most probably see a move to Hill as a negative in many if not most cases, yet I'm out in left field looking at it as one of the top six reasons to take a triple take at whatever horse he's taking over on.

[Stillriledup]

I'll get blasted for this, but I've always thought this guy was arguably one of the best jocks out there. I'm guessing most probably see a move to Hill as a negative in many if not most cases, yet I'm out in left field looking at it as one of the top six reasons to take a triple take at whatever horse he's taking over on.

The key to riches (among other things) is figuring out which jocks are much better than the public gives them credit for. Channing Hill might be one of those jocks.

[turninforhome10]

I'll get blasted for this, but I've always thought this guy was arguably one of the best jocks out there. I'm guessing most probably see a move to Hill as a negative in many if not most cases, yet I'm out in left field looking at it as one of the top six reasons to take a triple take at whatever horse he's taking over on.
We helped him get started when he was a bug in IA at Prairie Meadows. He had a great mentor in Glynn Bernis (my boss and mentor- Cajun jock) and the kid has a strong work ethic. Not sure who his agent is but they could do a better job marketing him.

[Ernie Dahlman]

Boom Towner!

Boom Towner was the first horse I owned in my partnership with Barry Schwartz. We did very well with him and he's the only racehorse Barry has ever retired on his beautiful farm. He loved Aqueduct because the rail is usually good and he always lugged in.

[cj]

Boom Towner was the first horse I owned in my partnership with Barry Schwartz. We did very well with him and he's the only racehorse Barry has ever retired on his beautiful farm. He loved Aqueduct because the rail is usually good and he always lugged in.

Cool, I always loved that horse.

[cj]

Channing Hill is starting to pick up some wins, didn't he used to be pretty good on the inner?

Define "pretty good"? If doesn't fall off qualifies, then he was pretty good.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Define "pretty good"? If doesn't fall off qualifies, then he was pretty good.

:lol: :lol:

I knew it wouldn't be too long.

[Stillriledup]

:lol: :lol:

I knew it wouldn't be too long.

Next time you bet Channing and he's got the lead you can yell DONT FALL OFF! :lol:

[BIG49010]

Define "pretty good"? If doesn't fall off qualifies, then he was pretty good. He's no Ramon, but he was similar to David Cohen who just came back to the Big "A". He breaks horses sharp for the lead, that's half the battle on the inner. A couple of wins for Pat Quick, isn't that considered next to impossible?

[cj]

He's no Ramon, but he was similar to David Cohen who just came back to the Big "A". He breaks horses sharp for the lead, that's half the battle on the inner. A couple of wins for Pat Quick, isn't that considered next to impossible?

I wouldn't say the jockey colony right now at the Big A is brimming with talent. Somebody has to win.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The key to riches (among other things) is figuring out which jocks are much better than the public gives them credit for. Channing Hill might be one of those jocks.

I'm not much into jock worship. I let it factor in when I see a horse that I think wants to run a certain way and there's a move to a guy that I think may be a better fit. To use your example in the thread next door about Colazeo or whatever his name is - horse looks like something of a one-dimensional but talented horse that has run most of his best races when he's been used to make the lead and gets brave. I really didn't pay much attention to the race so didn't have anything worth adding, but when I looked at the form, the chart, noted that the chart showed him with blinkers but the form didn't (nor did the EQB entries as an addition), and the form showed two works while making a rare third back off yet another break, I guess it just seemed somewhat logical that the barn might've drawn a similar conclusion that he was going pedal to the metal and everything went to plan.

To turn that into something resembling a point on this topic, cases like that are when I actually give any serious thought to jocks. A horse like that that's been packing a guy like Prado or someone around getting patient, traditionally desirable east coast type rides suddenly gets someone notoriously more aggressive and not overly concerned with auditioning for the camera, that's when it matters to me. Or vice versa. I'm trying to find a reason to play something that looks like crap in the form, and once in a while you get the sense that someone has perhaps given up thinking that they need to keep teaching some cheap snail to rate and make one run as though they're going to the Breeder's Cup after they get through this NYBRED16kMCL and I get a little boost of confidence when it's Hill up instead of someone "more polished". I've always kind of thought he had the wrong style for the most part to ride for a lot of those barns there that you'd want to ride for, but it seems like he's the type of jock that for that very reason would be somewhat in demand when the Boston Strangler to the three-sixteenth and then let everything lug into the rail approach isn't working with something in the barn.

[Tom]

If you turn up the volume real high and the Aqueduct replay show, you can actually hear the words, immediately following "They're Off!".....
"After you!"

Many poor riders, but a damned polite colony! :D

[cj]

If you turn up the volume real high and the Aqueduct replay show, you can actually hear the words, immediately following "They're Off!".....
"After you!"

Many poor riders, but a damned polite colony! :D

Ain't that the truth.

[MightBeSosa]

how good is Rudy?
better than that.

[Stillriledup]

how good is Rudy?
better than that.

"Who's the wildman now!"

Ruuuuu-DY Ruuuuu-DY Ruuuuu-DY!!

:lol:

[sammy the sage]

the 7 horse in the last today IS STILL running like the MIGHTY Sec!

Must be the water :rolleyes: :faint: :bang:

[BIG49010]

Anybody else get a laugh from Tycoon Cat in the 8th, the horse looked like he was getting hit with a battery. I've never seen a horse with such an active tail in all the years of watching racing.

[MightBeSosa]

Anybody else get a laugh from Tycoon Cat in the 8th, the horse looked like he was getting hit with a battery. I've never seen a horse with such an active tail in all the years of watching racing.

sorry to have to burst any bubbles, but that horse does that EVERY time. maybe they went from 1.5 to 9 volts today :D

strange beast. jock did put the stick to him big time at the 1/4

really amazing that some barns, even when their horses run well, never get it done.

[BIG49010]

Never noticed, but then again I'm not in the habit of following horses that are 1 for 33.

[MightBeSosa]

Never noticed, but then again I'm not in the habit of following horses that are 1 for 33.

Thats why you never catch the 2 for 34 win. :p

[Tom]

Never noticed, but then again I'm not in the habit of following horses that are 1 for 33.

At FL, we call that lightly raced.

Thats why you never catch the 2 for 34 win.

And we call that the "Big" horse. :D

[BIG49010]

I'll get blasted for this, but I've always thought this guy was arguably one of the best jocks out there. I'm guessing most probably see a move to Hill as a negative in many if not most cases, yet I'm out in left field looking at it as one of the top six reasons to take a triple take at whatever horse he's taking over on.

With limited mounts he has a win every day for the last 4 days of racing, and the winner today 24.80.

[BIG49010]

Just curious what you guys think a fast work is on the inner, yesterday Rudy Rod had a FTS win with a work of 1:03 bg. I know Rudy does not send them real fast, but what kind of time do you consider above average?