Pass Interference

[delayjf]

Curious what others think regarding the 4th down pass that went incomplete - Pass interference / holding or not? Was the pass catchable?

Myself, I'm doubtful he could have caught the ball and stayed in bounds - but we will never know. As for the non-call. My feelings are - what goes around, comes around. SF didn't get flagged for pass interference on that 4th down play in Atlanta towards the end of the game. I'm sure Atlanta fans fill avenged on some level.

[cj's dad]

Crabtree initiated the contact, therefore at that point it was wide open IMO barring a flagrant foul' which did not happen.

How about the phony roughing the kicker call on the missed FG attempt?

If the miss stands, the last drive is meaningless.

[PhantomOnTour]

Crabtree was giving as good as he was getting on that play.
By the letter of the law they both committed penalties, by the spirit of the law, in the Super Bowl, you let them play.
Unless (as CJD mentioned) something flagrant takes place, and i don't think that was the case.

Only thing to whine or cry about is some iffy playcalling by the Niners after the Gore run gave them 1st and goal.

[Jay Trotter]

I don't think the ball was catchable in bounds.

[Stillriledup]

It doesnt matter if he tackled him, its not interference on the last play of the Super Bowl. A Bump might get disqualified in the 4th race at Laurel on a rainy tuesday, but the same bump won't draw any scrutiny in the Ky Derby. Its a universal truth that the bigger the stage, the more is 'let go'. The rules are different for different situations and i think its poor sportsmanship for James Harbaugh to constantly harp on something he knows was never ever ever going to be called.

It puts the focus on the officiating and not the actual players and the game. The Ravens were the winning team, lets celebrate their accomplishment.

[PhantomOnTour]

It doesnt matter if he tackled him, its not interference on the last play of the Super Bowl. A Bump might get disqualified in the 4th race at Laurel on a rainy tuesday, but the same bump won't draw any scrutiny in the Ky Derby. Its a universal truth that the bigger the stage, the more is 'let go'. The rules are different for different situations and i think its poor sportsmanship for James Harbaugh to constantly harp on something he knows was never ever ever going to be called.

It puts the focus on the officiating and not the actual players and the game. The Ravens were the winning team, lets celebrate their accomplishment.
They called pass interference on the U against Ohio St on what would have been the last play of the game in the BCS Title game...2003?

[Stillriledup]

They called pass interference on the U against Ohio St on what would have been the last play of the game in the BCS Title game...2003?

I dont make the rules, i just deliver them.

[delayjf]

Speaking of flagrant fouls, did anyone catch the blatant holding on 4th down when the Ravens putter was running around the endzone trying to eat up time.

[cj]

Speaking of flagrant fouls, did anyone catch the blatant holding on 4th down when the Ravens putter was running around the endzone trying to eat up time.

They are taught to do that, because the end result is the same, a safety. The really is no penalty for the holding because the time still ticks away.

No idea why a flag wasn't thrown, though it changes nothing.

[rastajenk]

I thought the final pass was un-catchable because Crabtree didn't try very hard to catch it. Rewarding the Niners with a penalty after that effort would have been an injustice. Maybe the pass went where it was intended, but it seemed a little off, too. Good no call.

[JustRalph]

They are taught to do that, because the end result is the same, a safety. The really is no penalty for the holding because the time still ticks away.

No idea why a flag wasn't thrown, though it changes nothing.

I figured that's why the ref didn't care. It was so damn obvious and there was an official right behind those guys.

[burnsy]

as i posted in the brady thread.before the game...this is a game of defense and stops. thats how baltimore won the game. a tough goal line stand. the 49ers had 4 chances to score from the inside the 5 yard line and could not get it done. after the first 3 tries, that 4th try looked like desparation.....defensive holding or not. the kid will be a great QB some day but he made way MORE mistakes than Flacco did. his choices and inability to get a play off probably was the difference. the experience factor really showed in that game and once again defense won a championship.

[Fred]

Crabtree initiated the contact, therefore at that point it was wide open IMO barring a flagrant foul' which did not happen.

How about the phony roughing the kicker call on the missed FG attempt?

If the miss stands, the last drive is meaningless.

Just for the record the call was running into the kicker.

I think the no call in the end zone was the correct one

[Fred]

They called pass interference on the U against Ohio St on what would have been the last play of the game in the BCS Title game...2003?

And just for the record that was the proper call

On fourth and 3, after an initial signal of defensive holding, a pass interference penalty was called by official Terry Porter on Miami defensive back Glenn Sharpe. However the penalty was flagged after the play was completed and while Miami was celebrating an apparent victory, causing the call to become controversial. With a first-and-goal at the two, Krenzel scored three plays later on a one-yard touchdown run, sending the game into another overtime. Though initially shrouded in controversy, "The Call" has since been defended by sportswriters as a good one,[6][7] was validated by the National Association of Sports Officials,[8] and was selected by Referee Magazine as one of the "Best 18 Calls of All Time."[9]

[Valuist]

It was clearly holding. As for officials swallowing the whistles at the end of NFL and NBA games, then what the hell is the point of having rules? It wasn't even close.

The officiating was poor. As for the Niners, they got away with a late hit on Flacco out of bounds that wasn't called. Another mistake.

We all remember that finish to Seattle-Green Bay, but in retrospect, I'm not sure there was much of a drop off in the quality of officiating.

BTW, Fred is right regarding the PI call in the game vs the "U" and Ohio State.

[Robert Goren]

Pass Interference is in the eye of the beholder. It always boils down to did the beholder actually see it or was the ref trying to make eye contact with the red head in the third row.

[delayjf]

I figured that's why the ref didn't care. It was so damn obvious and there was an official right behind those guys.


Me too, now what if the Ravens were able to run out the clock, lets say over 10 seconds due to everyone holding? Should that be allowed?

[Greyfox]

I thought the final pass was un-catchable because Crabtree didn't try very hard to catch it..

Initially, I thought the pass was un-catchable. The replay from another angle showed otherwise.

It looked to me that interference might have been called.

But tough tough situation. If the ref throws the flag, SF wins. If they don't throw the flag, Baltimore wins. Late in the game many refs don't like to make a game deciding call. Earlier in the game, I think a flag would have been thrown.
Tough, tough, call.

[Valuist]

I figured that's why the ref didn't care. It was so damn obvious and there was an official right behind those guys.


Me too, now what if the Ravens were able to run out the clock, lets say over 10 seconds due to everyone holding? Should that be allowed?

Yes as the rules state now. But look for that rule to be changed. I'll give (John) Harbaugh credit. He knew the rule; they were going to take the safety so why not have everyone hold so time could come off the clock?

Getting back to the final Niners' play, it should be pointed out there is a clear distinction between holding and pass interference. PI is subjective; I was talking to a guy who claimed that the ball wasn't catchable; of course it wasn't because Crabtree's momentum was considerably slowed by the hold. If he's not held, its definitely catchable.

Another rule I'd like to see changed? A maximum of 20 or maybe 25 yards for pass interference. You can't guarantee the receiver would catch the ball.

[cj]

Yes, easy change. Just have the clock reset to when the penalty occurred.

[cj's dad]

Yes as the rules state now. But look for that rule to be changed. I'll give (John) Harbaugh credit. He knew the rule; they were going to take the safety so why not have everyone hold so time could come off the clock?

Getting back to the final Niners' play, it should be pointed out there is a clear distinction between holding and pass interference. PI is subjective; I was talking to a guy who claimed that the ball wasn't catchable; of course it wasn't because Crabtree's momentum was considerably slowed by the hold. If he's not held, its definitely catchable.

Another rule I'd like to see changed? A maximum of 20 or maybe 25 yards for pass interference. You can't guarantee the receiver would catch the ball.

If Crabtree was so blatantly held, how is it that Jimmy Smith ended up on the ground ? And the rule has nothing to do with "if the ball is able to be caught" where holding is involved; only on PI.

[Valuist]

If Crabtree was so blatantly held, how is it that Jimmy Smith ended up on the ground ? And the rule has nothing to do with "if the ball is able to be caught" where holding is involved; only on PI.

You are correct on the last sentence. Earlier in the thread, somebody mentioned whether or not the ball was catchable, which is irrelevant to a hold. A hold will always give the illusion that the ball is uncatchable.

Offensive PI will get called if the receiver pushes off ASSUMING they aren't being held first. I've seen plenty of receivers being held and try to push off to break the hold. They will not call a penalty on the receiver for that, and I do not view that as offensive PI. I'm sure that was the case with Crabtree.

I feel it was the wrong call but I am not shocked it wasn't called. Holding is usually less subjective than regular pass interference.

[cj]

You are correct on the last sentence. Earlier in the thread, somebody mentioned whether or not the ball was catchable, which is irrelevant to a hold. A hold will always give the illusion that the ball is uncatchable.

Offensive PI will get called if the receiver pushes off ASSUMING they aren't being held first. I've seen plenty of receivers being held and try to push off to break the hold. They will not call a penalty on the receiver for that, and I do not view that as offensive PI. I'm sure that was the case with Crabtree.

I feel it was the wrong call but I am not shocked it wasn't called. Holding is usually less subjective than regular pass interference.

Holding is tough to call when the contact is initiated inside of 5 yards and continues outside of it. That is usually not called. I think that was the case here, but I don't remember for sure.

The refs were very generous to DBs the entire game. It is one thing to not call it at the end if you have called it all game, but they had not, and it would have been ridiculous to start calling it then.

[elysiantraveller]

To me that was a hold and could have been called. I'm glad it wasn't but if the ref had thrown the flag I would have been okay with it. The problem was Crabtree ran a poor route. Had he made a outside move it would have been a no brainer penalty but instead he ran into the DB and initiated the contact.

I agree on the safety though that a flag should be thrown and time added back on to the clock.

[metroman]

yeah ,holding in the end zone ....THAT'S A SAFETY...DUH!

[cj]

To me that was a hold and could have been called. I'm glad it wasn't but if the ref had thrown the flag I would have been okay with it. The problem was Crabtree ran a poor route. Had he made a outside move it would have been a no brainer penalty but instead he ran into the DB and initiated the contact.

I agree on the safety though that a flag should be thrown and time added back on to the clock.

I'm guessing that will be the change, but you can't just make up a new rule during the Super Bowl.

[Show Me the Wire]

I wouldn't have called pass interference against SF, during the Raven's last scoring drive. Pretty ticky tack interference call on 3rd down, allowing the Raven's to keep their drive alive.

If you make that call against SF, you certainly should call holding the receiver in the end zone.

[badcompany]

I rarely have problems with no-calls. No one is paying to watch refs blow whistles.

[Robert Fischer]

It was holding.

I wasn't 100% sure seeing it in live action. Clearly the players engaged and it slowed the receiver down(good defense in many cases), but the replays show there was defensive holding.

Call could have easily been defensive holding.

The end result was the culmination of another 4 downs wasted in red zone territory by the 49ers. They almost got bailed out by a penalty.

crazy game

[elysiantraveller]

I'm guessing that will be the change, but you can't just make up a new rule during the Super Bowl.

I agree with you.

I thought something like that would already be on the books. That's one that will be looked at in the off-season. Giving up the safety doesn't happen too often I can only think of one other example probably 20 years ago when some team decided not to kick the ball to Mel Gray when he was on the Lions.

[NJ Stinks]

I figured that's why the ref didn't care. It was so damn obvious and there was an official right behind those guys.




The referee behind the play was running along the back boundary of the endzone with his eyes on the punter. Doesn't seem likely that he could watch the punter and look for holding away from where the punter was running. Stopping the clock when the punter was down or out of bounds was his biggest priority. That's my guess, anyway.

[Mike at A+]

When Baltimore took possession I predicted the deliberate safety based on time left and number of timeouts remaining. All the women at my party were impressed with my football knowledge ... and my chili.