American hero murdered

[Tom]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/03/navy-seal-chris-kyle-fatally-shot-at-texas-shooting-range-report-says/

Truly sad news....this guy was the real deal.
Not some idiot catching a ball, or some woosy pretending to be a soldier in a movie. This guy saved lives and he put his own on the line every day to do it.

He once shot a bad guy with a bomb at a mile and a half.
A mile and a half!

Over 150 kills. How many lives saved, unimaginable.

[fast4522]

I can't fathom the fact that these heroes survive hell holes the other side of the world only to be cut down here.

Link to another.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/01/29/saugus-war-veteran-fatally-shot-on-malden-street/

[Let's Roll]

I was sorry to hear of this fellows murder last night.
Hero indeed, may he rest in peace.

[horses4courses]

I can't fathom the fact that these heroes survive hell holes the other side of the world only to be cut down here.

Maybe something to do with the fact that any swinging dick who can hold a gun in this country has access to plenty?

Gun control?
Way too late for that now.
The horse is out of the barn, Wilbur.
It's "guns out of control" in the good ole USA, boys.

RIP Chris Kyle

[MONEY]

"We have met the enemy and he is us."~Pogo

[fast4522]

This economy has murder on the rise without question, just ask Senator Reid who says we are in recovery.

[hcap]

This economy has murder on the rise.

Wrong as usual. As well as poorly written

[horses4courses]

This economy has murder on the rise without question, just ask Senator Reid who says we are in recovery.

This man's death has nothing to do with the economy.
Strange that you would put such a spin on it.

[Tom]

Maybe something to do with the fact that any swinging dick who can hold a gun in this country has access to plenty?

Gun control?
Way too late for that now.
The horse is out of the barn, Wilbur.
It's "guns out of control" in the good ole USA, boys.

RIP Chris Kyle

The shooter was a former marine, suffering from PTSD.
It happened on a shooting range.
Do you suppose maybe he should not have been around fire arms?
Do you suppose any proposed gun law would have prevented this, or is cheap politics just your nature?

[fast4522]

My reference was not of the gallant man Tom posted, or your comment on but this guy.

[PhantomOnTour]

What, no one wants to ban gun ranges ?

[Tom]

I would expect you would favor that.

[hcap]

Do you suppose any proposed gun law would have prevented this, or is cheap politics just your nature Relevant parts of Obama's 22 executive orders. Even though he is a tyrant :)

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background-check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background-check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background- check system.

4. Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

22. Commit to finalizing mental-health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

[Tom]

Yeah, form a committee, start a dialog.
Nice of you to say something nice about a fallen hero, though.

[woodtoo]

So sad to here this,R.I.P Mr. Kyle

[PhantomOnTour]

I am not happy that Mr Kyle and his friend are dead
I am grateful for their service to the United States of America
I thank them for defending our freedoms


...but the story doesn't end there.
This is the perfect scenario talked about by pro gun folks about having an armed citizen to stop the threat. It's virtually the first thing mentioned when someone goes nutso and shoots up a mall or business or whatever...what if there had been an armed citizen with a concealed carry permit? Surely he/she would have stopped the threat, right?
You put so much faith in this unknown hero.
It's the same point i brought up regarding the theater shooting awhile back:

why do you put so much faith in the hero citizen shooter, and just assume that he has the balls to step up and that he's a master marksman who never misses and kills innocent bystanders?
WHY?

[ElKabong]

Mr Kyle was a volunteer baseball coach for my co-worker's son last year. Very nice, modest man who never once spoke of his heroism overseas to parents or his players.

When my coworker asked me if she would be out of line asking him for an autograph, I told her no - it wouldn't be out of line. In his later years he would look back at anyone asking him of that favor as a good-feeling moment.....Knowing he'd killed many of the enemy, those memories may someday come back to haunt him. Having Americans openly thank him for his service would ease the mental anguish many Vets have down the road.

Rest in peace, Mr Kyle. You're a better man than any of the bashers in this thread.

[woodtoo]

He's been arrested.

[Tom]

why do you put so much faith in the hero citizen shooter, and just assume that he has the balls to step up and that he's a master marksman who never misses and kills innocent bystanders?
WHY?

No one assumes that.
But he is far better than sitting there like a target and do nothing.
You will NEVER get rid of all the guns or lock up all the nuts.
Why do you assume you can.
WHY?

[PhantomOnTour]

No one assumes that.
But he is far better than sitting there like a target and do nothing.
You will NEVER get rid of all the guns or lock up all the nuts.
Why do you assume you can.
WHY?
Folks aren't sitting there like a target and doing nothing...i would presume they are running like hell.
We won't ever eradicate crime but we have laws, Tom.
I never assumed we would totally eradicate illegal guns and criminals....where did i say that?

Your post makes zero sense and is a lame counterpoint to my point.
We just saw what happens when lots of bystanders are armed.

You're at JC Penney's with your wife, your daughter, and your gun.
You see a guy shooting across the way...whaddaya gonna do:
> go stop him?
> get your family to safety pronto?
> continue shopping as normal?
> get your family to safety and then go back in to stop the shooter?

[mostpost]

Taking a man with PTSD to a shooting range with all its noise and sounds of gunfire, does not seem to me to be a plan that was very well thought out. It seems to me that Mr. Routh flashed back to a combat situation and reacted to it. Definitely a preventable tragedy.

edited to correct spelling of shooter's name.

[JustRalph]

Phantom, your analogy is way off base.

On the firing range during personal instruction there is usually only one live weapon. In fact here in Texas there are a few stories going around. The two men killed were giving instruction to their killer who simply turned the gun on them at the firing line. The whole story may never be known, the men were found with point blank powder burns. At least that is one radio report.

Anybody could kill their shooting instructor in this scenario. No matter who the instructor is. You are taking too many liberties using the analogy to project on to ccw holders any relevance to a public shooting.

Btw, there is also radio reports that the two men killed were training their killer for a job. I don't know where they get this idea, but Kyle had started a company doing advanced shooter training.

Nobody will probably ever know what happen on that range for sure. But it is just plain pandering to the anti gun crowd to use this incident in the manner that Phantom has described. Btw, within 10 minutes of the reports on the incident an editor of Mother Jones Magazine had already started the meme repeated by Phantom via her twitter Army. A half an hour later she was whining about being threatened online. I am sure this meme went out in emails before the sun came up this morning...........

[johnhannibalsmith]

... It seems to me that Mr. Routh flashed back to a combat situation ...

That's a heaping dose of speculation, but hey, why not.

[JustRalph]

Taking a man with PTSD to a shooting range with all its noise and sounds of gunfire, does not seem to me to be a plan that was very well thought out. It seems to me that Mr. Routh flashed back to a combat situation and reacted to it. Definitely a preventable tragedy.

edited to correct spelling of shooter's name.

Flashbacks are very very rare and are the stuff of Hollywood movies more than anything. In fact flashbacks were invented by defense lawyers for their clients after Vietnam. There is very little evidence they exist. PTSD symptoms are much different than those portrayed in Hollywood.

What are the odds you would come up with that? You're amazing sometimes :bang:

[Tom]

Your post makes zero sense and is a lame counterpoint to my point. We just saw what happens when lots of bystanders are armed

It makes sense if you think about it.
When all your feel good actions fail, "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

In this case, he shot two and fled, Her did not go on a spree.
Just having a guy with a gun is STILL no 100% solution, but I direct your attention to Columbine, the Long Island RR, where the shooters strolled around shooting people at will. Had one guy on the train had a piece, it could have ended much sooner.

What about all the cases Ralph posted, what about home invasions, what about the possibilities of massive power outages, for weeks, when people come to your house looking for food?

[mostpost]

Flashbacks are very very rare and are the stuff of Hollywood movies more than anything. In fact flashbacks were invented by defense lawyers for their clients after Vietnam. There is very little evidence they exist. PTSD symptoms are much different than those portrayed in Hollywood.

What are the odds you would come up with that? You're amazing sometimes :bang:Thank you for your expert testimony on flashbacks Dr. JustRalph. Too bad it is contradicted by all the actual experts. Defense lawyers did not invent flashbacks. Flashbacks were discovered by therapists treating military personnel suffering from PTSD. Lawyers used the knowledge to help their clients. Which is as it should be.

I am not amazing sometimes. I am amazing all the time.

So tell me, if Mr Rauth did not kill the two men because of his PTSD, why did he kill them? Was it impulse? What triggered the impulse? I think it was the environment of the shooting range.

[Greyfox]

It seems to me that Mr. Routh flashed back to a combat situation and reacted to it..

You missed your calling Mostie. "Shudda" been a defence lawyer.

[Tom]

I am not amazing sometimes. I am amazing all the time.

Yes, this is certainly true.
:rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

The shooter was a former marine, suffering from PTSD.
It happened on a shooting range.
Do you suppose maybe he should not have been around fire arms?
Do you suppose any proposed gun law would have prevented this, or is cheap politics just your nature?Maybe people suffering from PTSD should not not be allowed to have guns. The Cheap politics on the gun issue has been coming from NRA including down right lies repeated by useful idiots on this site.

[JustRalph]

Maybe people suffering from PTSD should not not be allowed to have guns. The Cheap politics on the gun issue has been coming from NRA including down right lies repeated by useful idiots on this site.

Same ole shit, different thread.........

[Robert Goren]

Same ole shit, different thread.........You keep spreading it from thread to thread

[hcap]

Yeah, form a committee, start a dialog.
Nice of you to say something nice about a fallen hero, though.Tom, I excepted points of mental health from Obama's 22 executive orders that might have prevented the shooter from being around guns.