I have $25,000

[elhelmete]

Hypothetically. :)

What's the best way to get into the game as an (new) owner?

Assumptions:

I've enjoyed the game as a (non-whale) bettor for a while.

I live in a major market...A or B level track where the purse/claim structure would allow my $25K to get me into something.

I do not have Triple Crown stars in my eyes.

[Stillriledup]

Don't 'trust' trainers to make decisions on who to claim, when and where to race unless that trainer is a family member or Mother Teresa.

[onefast99]

To get your feet wet look for a claimer who is popular in the claim box. Get a trainer who will give you the costs upfront as well as look after your 1st purchase as if it was his/hers. Make sure you ask questions before the claim, many grooms or past trainers know what the issues were with certain horses they had and after 2 cups of coffee will tell you everything you need to know about the horse you want to claim and then some. Always go for a single, home runs are a rarity unless you happen to stumble upon a Lava Man type! Good luck to you and remember if it was easy making money in this game no one would need to work!

[HUSKER55]

there a couple trainers who post here off and on. give them a shout out.

[Steve R]

Hypothetically. :)

What's the best way to get into the game as an (new) owner?

Assumptions:

I've enjoyed the game as a (non-whale) bettor for a while.

I live in a major market...A or B level track where the purse/claim structure would allow my $25K to get me into something.

I do not have Triple Crown stars in my eyes.
Not enough money if you're on your own. Assuming your first horse is a claim there won't be enough left to cover training expenses, vet bills, medication and other fees, and the kind of horse you're likely claim off that budget has a remote chance of earning enough to cover your annual costs.

You could use the $25K to join a racing syndicate in the style of West Point Thoroughbreds, Team Valor, etc, although I don't know how much of an investment is required by the higher end groups (i.e., those most likely to race at the better venues).

[brivolta]

I made my first claim in June and it turned out to be one of those home runs, though I was just looking for a hit by pitch.

In hindsight I will say that the biggest key for me was the selection of a trainer. And for me it sort of happened by luck. I didn't put a ton of thought into it at the time. But luckily it worked out.

I tried to claim no fewer than 5 horses before I got the one I ended up with. All were favorites going into their race and looked great on paper. Every time, we would get to the paddock area and my trainer would point out something (too small, funny looking ankle, etc) he didn't like and we would pass. It started to really make me mad after a while.

When I finally ended up with my claimer, it was a horse that went off at 13/1 in a $7500 claiming race. But the horse was state bred, and was obviously sound. It was clear she didn't like the polytrack she had been running on, but had had some success on dirt. It wasn't nearly as sexy of a claim as the others would have been, but strategically it was the one that made the most sense.

However, of the other five, three haven't won since and one hasn't raced since. They have all had extended layoffs at some point. The one we ended up claiming has gone on to win 5 of 10 for almost 90k, blow through her allowance conditions, and is as sound as they come.

Point being, had I selected a different trainer there is a good chance I would have ended up with one of the other horses just to fill a stall for the trainer. Instead we have built a little bankroll that has allowed us to claim another one. You have to select a trainer who you think is looking out for your long term best interest. Ask to speak with some of their owners, and don't land on a trainer until you feel totally comfortable with them.

[HPFridays]

Brivolta,

Very good job and luck on your part. How did you decide on your trainer? Was it someone you admired from the pp's, a referral from another owner, or some other reason? What circuit does the horse race?

[elhelmete]

Thanks everyone including the person who DM'd me.

However I was asking it as a hypothetical question as I was party to a discussion on another forum ( :bang: ) where some methods of ownership were being touted and/or derided.

The genesis of my question is I'm kind of thinking that getting someone to have some skin in the game might be just as beneficial to the health of the sport as is getting that person to push money through the windows.

In theory, my $25000 example was for someone who had an inclination to get involved and didn't expect miracles...but was looking for guidance.

So choice-wise...

Claim a single horse for say $12.5 and hope to run him and keep him sound for a while?

Enter a well-known partnership/syndicate for horses currently racing?

Ditto for an unraced yearling or 2-yo?

Give up on seeing your horse race live, and find a way to claim a few ham-and-egger $5K runners at a lower-level track elsewhere?

Go in on a horse with a partner or two (outside the structure of a larger syndicate)?

Something else?

[brivolta]

Thanks everyone including the person who DM'd me.

However I was asking it as a hypothetical question as I was party to a discussion on another forum ( :bang: ) where some methods of ownership were being touted and/or derided.

The genesis of my question is I'm kind of thinking that getting someone to have some skin in the game might be just as beneficial to the health of the sport as is getting that person to push money through the windows.

In theory, my $25000 example was for someone who had an inclination to get involved and didn't expect miracles...but was looking for guidance.

So choice-wise...

Claim a single horse for say $12.5 and hope to run him and keep him sound for a while?

Enter a well-known partnership/syndicate for horses currently racing?

Ditto for an unraced yearling or 2-yo?

Give up on seeing your horse race live, and find a way to claim a few ham-and-egger $5K runners at a lower-level track elsewhere?

Go in on a horse with a partner or two (outside the structure of a larger syndicate)?

Something else?

Definitely not this one.

[lamboguy]

Thanks everyone including the person who DM'd me.

However I was asking it as a hypothetical question as I was party to a discussion on another forum ( :bang: ) where some methods of ownership were being touted and/or derided.

The genesis of my question is I'm kind of thinking that getting someone to have some skin in the game might be just as beneficial to the health of the sport as is getting that person to push money through the windows.

In theory, my $25000 example was for someone who had an inclination to get involved and didn't expect miracles...but was looking for guidance.

So choice-wise...

Claim a single horse for say $12.5 and hope to run him and keep him sound for a while?

Enter a well-known partnership/syndicate for horses currently racing?

Ditto for an unraced yearling or 2-yo?

Give up on seeing your horse race live, and find a way to claim a few ham-and-egger $5K runners at a lower-level track elsewhere?

Go in on a horse with a partner or two (outside the structure of a larger syndicate)?

Something else?
from experience, get more of a bankroll and buy yearlings, break them and train them, then give them to a good trainer. you can buy winning yearlings for less than $5000 if you have or have someone that has a good eye that can win maiden $25,000 all day long. if things go right, the horse might get claimed from you at the full price.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...So choice-wise...

Claim a single horse for say $12.5 and hope to run him and keep him sound for a while?

Enter a well-known partnership/syndicate for horses currently racing?

Ditto for an unraced yearling or 2-yo?

Give up on seeing your horse race live, and find a way to claim a few ham-and-egger $5K runners at a lower-level track elsewhere?

Go in on a horse with a partner or two (outside the structure of a larger syndicate)?

Something else?



Step A:

Be realistic about what you expect to enjoy about being an owner.

Do you want the emotional attachment of raising one, naming it, breaking it, and watching it go from an awkward goof to a racehorse making its debut?

Do you want action - no attachment and the ability to engage the strategies of making the most of a relatively known quantity?

Do you need to have control? Do you want to fight with partners over how to manage the horse? What type of person are you when it comes to laying down your money for an asset (or liability) and the degree of input in how that money is used?

Basically, the notion that the FIRST thing to do is to evaluate and find a trainer is, in my mind, wrong. The first thing to do is to evaluate yourself as a person independent of racehorses and how that will affect your experience in each situation. Every option posed has upsides, downsides, and all bear a baseline degree of risk at a minimum. If you want to enjoy the experience and not piss away your money, no matter how much money you start with, you need to be honest about yourself and let that decide how you approach ownership.

[brivolta]

Brivolta,

Very good job and luck on your part. How did you decide on your trainer? Was it someone you admired from the pp's, a referral from another owner, or some other reason? What circuit does the horse race?

As I said I lucked out. My trainer (Steve Manley) does very well at my home track, Fairmount Park. He also is somewhat successful in Chicago. I wanted to claim a horse to run at Fairmount, but I thought I would be better served claiming a cheap horse in Chicago and bringing it to FP than simply claiming at FP.

Knowing that he was in both places and was very successful at FP, I decided to try to track him down. We claimed my filly (Camagin) at Arlington for $7,500 knowing that she could come to FP and run on her preferred surface. They write a $15,000 NW3/L race at FP and that's where we decided she fit best. After two failed tries, she won on her third attempt by 7 lengths and hasn't looked back since. She won next out by 14 in an allowance race at FP and then we sent her to Hawthorne for the fall. She went 3 for 5 at Hawthorne and blew through her allowance conditions.

The ironic part is I wanted a horse to race at FP, but she's done so well that she most likely won't run here very often this coming meet. Since those first two races off the claim, she has been 5 for 8 and has never been out of the superfecta. You won't find a horse that tries harder than she does, and she's always as happy as they come. I couldn't have asked for a better first claim.

[mountainman]

Hypothetically. :)

What's the best way to get into the game as an (new) owner?

Assumptions:

I've enjoyed the game as a (non-whale) bettor for a while.

I live in a major market...A or B level track where the purse/claim structure would allow my $25K to get me into something.

I do not have Triple Crown stars in my eyes.

My advice is to put in a swimming pool. T-bred ownership will eat your 25k without a burp, sir.

[HPFridays]

As I said I lucked out. My trainer (Steve Manley) does very well at my home track, Fairmount Park. He also is somewhat successful in Chicago. I wanted to claim a horse to run at Fairmount, but I thought I would be better served claiming a cheap horse in Chicago and bringing it to FP than simply claiming at FP.

Knowing that he was in both places and was very successful at FP, I decided to try to track him down. We claimed my filly (Camagin) at Arlington for $7,500 knowing that she could come to FP and run on her preferred surface. They write a $15,000 NW3/L race at FP and that's where we decided she fit best. After two failed tries, she won on her third attempt by 7 lengths and hasn't looked back since. She won next out by 14 in an allowance race at FP and then we sent her to Hawthorne for the fall. She went 3 for 5 at Hawthorne and blew through her allowance conditions.

The ironic part is I wanted a horse to race at FP, but she's done so well that she most likely won't run here very often this coming meet. Since those first two races off the claim, she has been 5 for 8 and has never been out of the superfecta. You won't find a horse that tries harder than she does, and she's always as happy as they come. I couldn't have asked for a better first claim.


nice....thanks for sharing your story and continued good luck to you and Camagin.

:ThmbUp:

[brivolta]

nice....thanks for sharing your story and continued good luck to you and Camagin.

:ThmbUp:

Thank you very much!

[rrpic6]

My advice is to put in a swimming pool. T-bred ownership will eat your 25k without a burp, sir.

Well said Sir! Wish I had taken that advice quite a few years ago. I had money to pay off my house or buy a thoroughbred and run at Mountaineer. I still have a mortgage.

RR

[The Judge]

Do a little more research, talk to people who own horses at your track. It seems that you want to be owner and have some fun. Nothing wrong with that.
There are lots of perks, your get to see you horse run , you get your name in the program and the racing form (if there are a lot of partners you have to work that out,) you get to go on the back side and visit your horse, you get to sit with the other owners (sometimes in a special area of the clubhouse as well as the outside area,) you get a owners license, you get in free, you get passes for friends, at some tracks you get free and special parking, you go to the paddock and meet the jock before the race,everyone knows you own a race horse.

What I would do is.

Get partners who will share the expenses remember horses get hurt and even when they aren't you will be getting a Vet bill along with the trainer's bill.

If you don't know some folks you trust, ask some of the claiming trainers who have a good reputation at the track if they know any good people looking to buy a horse. I would rather be partners with people just starting out, people in the same economic class as myself and folks trying to have a little fun.

Remember they pay to 5th place this is important to an owner. Very seldom will you get a check but it does happen and boy does it feel good. Even if you don't get a check and have to pay it hurts a lot less when your hose has finished 3rd in one race and 4th in another.

If you claim an older horse what you see is what you get. If he is running for $5,000 before you own him, guess what?

A younger horse that's up for a claim is headed down, not up. Even if that's not always the case that's the way you should look at it from an owner's view.
Remember horses eat the best oats and they get pretty good care even when he is laid up and not making any money, they get rubbed down, legs bandaged, they get electrolytes, vitamins ,they have a private stall, they get all of this whether they are "Johnny Slow Poke" or " Secretariat".

One of the most important things is how do you get rid of the horse? Say he not going to race again. Some mares have value as breeding stock if the have a good pedigree and can be sold for some money (small amount normally).
Most trainers can help you here.

There is at least one trainer on here that knows the game and people seem to like and respect. I think he post's under McShell Racing Stable or something close I am sure he knows the pitfalls as well as anyone.

Hey ,as long as you are trying to have some fun and can stand it, I say give it a try, you only go around once.

[Show Me the Wire]

I f you are truly serious, you need to decide if you want a business or social activity.

Social activity get a partner and run the horse at your local track. If a business no partners, partners complicate matters and never make your trainer a partner.

Interview trainers, have them give you a tour of their shedrow and operation. Learn their philosophy about winning a race. Have them explain the condition book to you. You need to understand the book to select the appropriate stock. If they don't like dropping sound horses for the win, or claiming off other trainers walk away.

Next is finance. If you decide on a trainer, you need to reserve a few months of training expenses from your total capitalization. Select a circuit, which has enough purse money to make your investment worthwhile. Figure a break even point, per purse structure, for your purchase, if you have to drop for a win. Never claim a bottom level claimer as you are already at the bottom.

It is very important to be able to keep regular tabs on your investment, by attending works and daily exercise often. Do not base your trainer selection on low day rates. As anything else in life, you get what you pay for.


There is much more you will need know, before you make this decision, but this is the starting point.

If you want to own it can be the most exciting and rewarding investment or the worse. Depends on your business acumen and desire.

[Show Me the Wire]

Also, very important seek out other small owners on your circuit and talk to them. Most will be happy to share their experiences with you and give you insights.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Hypothetically. :)

What's the best way to get into the game as an (new) owner?

Assumptions:

I've enjoyed the game as a (non-whale) bettor for a while.

I live in a major market...A or B level track where the purse/claim structure would allow my $25K to get me into something.

I do not have Triple Crown stars in my eyes.

My advice is to start small.Here at Gulfstream you can claim a $6250.00 horse and the purse is almost 18k.They also have another condition that is nw since a date for 18k.To put 12k in a horse and hope he is good imo is a little much for your first claim .Claim a hot horse,Hopefully win with him.Have a guy that is up front about costs to you and most of all stay away from the big outfits as they will bleed you to death with this and that.Find a hands on trainer who works on his own horses instead of standing around patting himself on the back...JMO..Good Luck to you

[tbwinner]

Use a supertrainer or a claiming trainer who has consistently high %s that doesn't get them dropping all the time....and claim someone's best horse. And that someone would be a trainer that has a win % <5%.

[tbwinner]

Also ask to see REAL, hard copy examples of vet bills for MULTIPLE horses.

I had a trainer quote me that their vet bills were "between $200 and $400 monthly, $600 high side"...two months in I got a bill for $1,300....

This also helps see if your trainer knows what they're doing or is highly reliant on the NEEDLE.

[Linny]

I know plenty of people in partnerships from small localized outfits to the big ones like Team Valor and WPT. Some are happy, others less so. The biggest issue is the markup on young stock is date-rape. A few years ago I saw a major outfit listing a 2yo on their site for $10k for 10%. I looked the horse up and he'd lost a MDCL$50k at Parx already and they'd only paid $30k for him! Do your research!
Some partnerships deal with claimers mostly and work on churn. They claim, they try to win a bit but if they lose the horse, they move on. They usually take decent in form type horses.

I have often considered what I would do with that kind of money to invest in the game. I think that I would probably approach a leading claiming owner and ask if I could go in with them on something, maybe offering to sweeten the deal by putting up extra money relative to my share to compensate them for their taking on a partner. I'd rather have 1/4 of 3 horses claimed by Maggi Moss or Michael Dubb than all of much of what's out there. Speaking of which, I'd prefer to have enough money available to spread around to more than one horse. It's to likely for something to go wrong with one horse.

As for any partnership, whether it's an established outfit or you teaming up with someone, you are probably not going to have as much fun if you are constantly telling the managing partner what they should claim or where they should run. If you want to go "manage" your horse(s) then you will need to put up your own money for the whole deal. Some partnership managers invite partner input, many don't.

[forced89]

Hypothetically. :)

What's the best way to get into the game as an (new) owner?


With $25k there are three ways to go. (1) buy a yearling; (2) buy at a 2 yo in training sale; or (3) claim.

(1) Buy a yearling. This one is tough because of the costs breaking and training before you get to the track. In addition you would probably have to limit the cost of the yearling to less than $5k. And then there are the unforseen things that happen to young horses which can set you back and run you out of money.

(2) Buy at a 2 yo in training sale. This is also tough. If you limit the amount you pay to under $10k, you will have enough money for about 6-7 months training which may not be enough. If you spend less than $5k for your 2 yo, chances are you will have enough cash to get your horse to the races but your chance of getting a good one for $5k or less is questionable.

(3) Claim one. I think this is the best choice for a newby. Two rules. First, select a trainer you trust. And second, claim one for two to two and one half times the minimum claiming price at the track you have chosen. This way if you make a mistake or the horse you have claimed isn't working out, you can drop him in for a lower price and probably get him claimed from you and some of your money back with which to try again.