C. Enghelhart out for a spell

[MightBeSosa]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/formal-attire-trainer-hit-60-day-ban-article-1.1251294

[Stillriledup]

60 day or longer bans should force a trainer to transfer to other established trainers and not 'paper trainers'. If you dont have to actually move the horses and you just put your groom or nephew down as trainer, there's really not much of a punishment. You get to sip pina colada's on Hallandale beach for 60 days while training the barn from cellphone, you get 60 days off of a vacation while losing no money, no horses and no clients.

[Cratos]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/formal-attire-trainer-hit-60-day-ban-article-1.1251294

My punishment would be as follows:
1st guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 60 days from any track in North America.

2nd guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 1 year from any track in North America.

3rd guilty offense - Suspension for life of horse, trainer, and owner for life from any track in North America and the horse would the cited as a PED horse in the stud book.

I realize that these would be tough penalties, but the bettors who wagered their money deserves a fair and clean game.

[mannyberrios]

My punishment would be as follows:
1st guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 60 days from any track in North America.

2nd guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 1 year from any track in North America.

3rd guilty offense - Suspension for life of horse, trainer, and owner for life from any track in North America and the horse would the cited as a PED horse in the stud book.

I realize that these would be tough penalties, but the bettors who wagered their money deserves a fair and clean game. You are being a little tough on the horse

[Tom]

You are too easy, there Cratos! ;)

I would also, fro the second offense on, fine the owner and trainer the amount of the pools bet on the DQ'd horse. All the pools.

[Cratos]

You are being a little tough on the horse

If you don't suspend the horse, that horse could be trained and raced by another trainer and the owner would be the beneficiary of the purse if the horse should win even though that owner would be suspended. You have to hit the cheaters where it hurts the most and
that is in the pocketbook.

[Tom]

Easy solution - don't frigging cheat.

[MightBeSosa]

Yeah, I think the owners need to feel the heat, so they won't encourage their 'trainers' to press boundaries.

[rastajenk]

Sixty days for a first TCO2 violation? Something smells here, and it's not just the opinions of the first responders in this thread. A high TCO2 is not like strapping a cheetah to their backs, yet you guys would hang them from the most reachable tree branch because you think they defrauded your betting experience. It doesn't work that way.

[appistappis]

They should force him to have to train at finger lakes.

[johnhannibalsmith]

My punishment would be as follows:
1st guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 60 days from any track in North America.

2nd guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 1 year from any track in North America.

3rd guilty offense - Suspension for life of horse, trainer, and owner for life from any track in North America and the horse would the cited as a PED horse in the stud book.

I realize that these would be tough penalties, but the bettors who wagered their money deserves a fair and clean game.

Just curious - what if the horse is claimed out of the race it gets a bad test in and the new owner doesn't opt to return it to the previous owner (assuming the option is stipulated)?

[FantasticDan]

They should force him to have to train at finger lakes. :D

On FL's website, they don't even bother to list his training titles, it's just "every year since 2003" :sleeping:

[Track Phantom]

Sixty days for a first TCO2 violation? Something smells here, and it's not just the opinions of the first responders in this thread. A high TCO2 is not like strapping a cheetah to their backs, yet you guys would hang them from the most reachable tree branch because you think they defrauded your betting experience. It doesn't work that way.

Good point. Because us bettors are really bitter for no reason.

Sillyness. Don't blame the players for an environment created by a litany of crooked trainers.

I don't know the difference between TCO2 and TCU. I really don't care to either. Just stop cheating.

[tzipi]

My punishment would be as follows:
1st guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 60 days from any track in North America.

2nd guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 1 year from any track in North America.

3rd guilty offense - Suspension for life of horse, trainer, and owner for life from any track in North America and the horse would the cited as a PED horse in the stud book.

I realize that these would be tough penalties, but the bettors who wagered their money deserves a fair and clean game.


First offense if it's a complete drug cheat......LIFE BAN. Simple....don't cheat or put horses at risk.

Enghelhart is nothing but another druggie cheat in this game. How are they suppose to get new people playing this game? Every day another drugger in the paper.

[Cratos]

Just curious - what if the horse is claimed out of the race it gets a bad test in and the new owner doesn't opt to return it to the previous owner (assuming the option is stipulated)?

That is an easy answer. If the horse which is claimed is found to have a PED in its system the claim is null and void and the claiming funds are returned to the claimant. The claimant by rule would not have any rights to the horse.

[johnhannibalsmith]

That is an easy answer. ...

What if they appeal the ruling? How long do you potentially have to pay someone else's training bill despite doing nothing wrong before ownership is settled?

[Cratos]

Sixty days for a first TCO2 violation? Something smells here, and it's not just the opinions of the first responders in this thread. A high TCO2 is not like strapping a cheetah to their backs, yet you guys would hang them from the most reachable tree branch because you think they defrauded your betting experience. It doesn't work that way.

I understand your sentiment, but it took MLB and the NFL a long time to wake up and understand that PEDs were bad for their sports. The NBA is not fully aboard yet.

But back to horseracing and according to the Blood-.Horse magazine horseracing total annual handle between 2003-2011 dropped from $15B to$10B. I will readily admit that the drop was not caused solely because of the perception by the public that horseracing was being rigged by the doping of horses.

However I do believe a significant part of the handle fall came from a perception of racehorses being doped.

This is a tough game with many astute players and to play it under the suspicion of drug use, real or imagine is a losing proposition.

[Cratos]

What if they appeal the ruling? How long do you potentially have to pay someone else's training bill despite doing nothing wrong before ownership is settled?

I did say "by rule". Therefore there would not be an appeal. But using your hypothetical everything would remain status quo until a final ruling. That is, the original owner would keep the horse and there would not be any monies taken from the potential claimant.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I did say "by rule". Therefore there would not be an appeal. But using your hypothetical everything would remain status quo until a final ruling. That is, the original owner would keep the horse and there would not be any monies taken from the potential claimant.

No appeals? I don't get it. You can't appeal the stewards decision to the director and the director decision to the commission?

When you claim a horse you actually pay for it at ten to post, but then get to watch it go back to the previous owners barn and wait until the test clears and then go pick it up a week later and hope you are being delivered the same thing (condition wise) that you inspected at the paddock a week earlier?

I'll just come out and say it because I don't want to dillydally with a back and forth through a bunch of hypotheticals, but I just cannot see any realistic way to implement any system where claimed horses are returned to previous owners if the new legal owner doesn't want to return the horse. And if you get a bad test on a horse that is claimed, I don't see how you can suspend the horse.

When I say "no realistic way", I mean without completely overhauling the entire system, and that just adding a new rule such as that is impractical. Even if you did overhaul the entire system, I'm still not sure how you would possibly eliminate/amend due process that extends beyond the jurisdiction of racing associations.

I know you are a bright guy, so perhaps you can convince me otherwise, but to date, I haven't heard the winning argument for how you'd possibly do it effectively and neatly.

[Tom]

They should force him to have to train at finger lakes.

Nope.
It FL, they would suspend him for having levels too LOW! :lol:

[onefast99]

My punishment would be as follows:
1st guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 60 days from any track in North America.

2nd guilty offense - Suspension of horse, trainer, and owner for 1 year from any track in North America.

3rd guilty offense - Suspension for life of horse, trainer, and owner for life from any track in North America and the horse would the cited as a PED horse in the stud book.

I realize that these would be tough penalties, but the bettors who wagered their money deserves a fair and clean game.
Good luck with those! The way to do this and make it stick is to hit the trainer in the pocketbook. If a horse tests positive the horse must be moved to another trainer within 30 days(and cannot run for 30 days). If that same horse tests positive a 2nd time under the same ownership with a different trainer the owner is suspended for 1 year.

[tzipi]

Good luck with those! The way to do this and make it stick is to hit the trainer in the pocketbook. If a horse tests positive the horse must be moved to another trainer within 30 days(and cannot run for 30 days). If that same horse tests positive a 2nd time under the same ownership with a different trainer the owner is suspended for 1 year.

That would be great :ThmbUp:

[Cratos]

Good luck with those! The way to do this and make it stick is to hit the trainer in the pocketbook. If a horse tests positive the horse must be moved to another trainer within 30 days(and cannot run for 30 days). If that same horse tests positive a 2nd time under the same ownership with a different trainer the owner is suspended for 1 year.

I can understand adding a fine, but without removing the horse, trainer, and owner from racing the penalty would be severely weaken.