Aqueduct and Short Fields - Time for changes?

[jeebus1083]

I admire NYRA's attempt to continue to card 5-day race weeks with 9-race cards, but it might be time to consider cutting back on days and races to better fill the cards.

Wednesday's card, after scratches, there are 60 horses entered, 75 on Thursday, (74 in-body, 73 betting interests plus 1 on the AE list), and 62 on Friday.

I understand that the racing office can only work with what they have, but this is bad, even for winter racing. I remember when NYRA cut the schedule from 6 days down to 5. Perhaps it's time to cut the fat again.

[Striker]

The AQU inner cards look very similar to the ones before the casino/slots money boosted the purses.

[OTM Al]

The AQU inner cards look very similar to the ones before the casino/slots money boosted the purses.

Considering they have been told that there is a minimum bottom for claimers they are allowed to run and can only pay a max of 2X (and may go down further) the claiming price in purses, that should not be surprising. There will be a few interesting maiden races and a few good stakes, but these rules pretty much neutralized the effects of casino revenue on the average weekday card where claimers play a big role.

[Al Gobbi]

According to Dave Grening and Jerry Bossert, the upcoming NYRA board meeting will look into the possibility of four day a week scheduling and dropping the ninth race.

[jeebus1083]

Thanks, Al Gobbi. It's too bad that race dates/cards may contract, but the game has changed, and the reality right now is that NYRA cannot sufficiently support a 5-day racing week with 9-race cards.

[wisconsin]

According to Dave Grening and Jerry Bossert, the upcoming NYRA board meeting will look into the possibility of four day a week scheduling and dropping the ninth race.


Fine by me, but they'll screw it all up if they go through with poly on the inner.

[OTM Al]

Hadn't even considered another change that happened a while back causing the shorter fields but down at the bottom of this DRF article

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-considers-cutback-inner-track-racing-schedule

it is cited that shippers are down 80% since the new drug rules went into place. Very predictable and says a lot. One must imagine some horses that also normally would have been on the grounds aren't there anymore either for the same reason.

[MightBeSosa]

Sounds very plausible, and probably explains why NYRA was so reluctant to demand fewer juice options.

They knew.

[jeebus1083]

Hadn't even considered another change that happened a while back causing the shorter fields but down at the bottom of this DRF article

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-considers-cutback-inner-track-racing-schedule

it is cited that shippers are down 80% since the new drug rules went into place. Very predictable and says a lot. One must imagine some horses that also normally would have been on the grounds aren't there anymore either for the same reason.

Yet another reason why this sport needs a uniform drug administration policy.

[turninforhome10]

NYRA to Consider Synthetic for Aqueduct
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/75651/nyra-to-consider-synthetic-for-aqueduct?source=rss

[bisket]

At the first whisper of a synthetic track Crist writes a column denouncing synthetics in New York. Any poker players in the house have any doubts about how weak drf's hand is when it comes to synthetics... If i were across the table from him I'd slow play him til he was broke.

[Al Gobbi]

I don't see why they can't just put a new winterized based surface (dirt) on the main track. It would give horsemen more opportunities to run longer (ie: 6 1/2 and 7F) instead of 6 or 1M which seems to be 85% of the races in the winter and give NYRA the chance to run up towards 14 in the one turn races.

[turninforhome10]

Could it be that it is harder to train on the winter track? Speaking more from being at Parx than AQ but East Coast tracks are under much the same stresses from the environment. Winter racing is hard on the horse with cold air on the lungs, frozen greasy track and IMHO a different quality of animal. Also involved are the pressures to have the horse ready for the race ie Economics of the condition book as the purses have created the owners more concerned about when the horse runs again. It is hard to keep an animal at a level of fitness for top performances when they can not have consistent training conditions.
Just a thought.

[tzipi]

Hadn't even considered another change that happened a while back causing the shorter fields but down at the bottom of this DRF article

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-considers-cutback-inner-track-racing-schedule

it is cited that shippers are down 80% since the new drug rules went into place. Very predictable and says a lot. One must imagine some horses that also normally would have been on the grounds aren't there anymore either for the same reason.


"Shippers down 80% since new drug rules"

Unfortunately, not shocking in today's world of horse racing. It's a drug game sadly. :mad:

[EagleEye Po]

If there is legitimate evidence that field size is down as a result of NYRA's stricter drug policies they should use it as a positive and promote it to Horseplayers.

I would prefer to wager on a cleaner product.

[Robert Goren]

I thought the slot money was suppose to cure the problem of short fields. I seem to many posts about year ago to that effect.

[OTM Al]

I thought the slot money was suppose to cure the problem of short fields. I seem to many posts about year ago to that effect.

Did you read the part about how they were mandated to lower the purses on claimers? That negates the effects of slot money pretty much completely.

[the little guy]

Did you read the part about how they were mandated to lower the purses on claimers? That negates the effects of slot money pretty much completely.

He's a very selective reader.....especially as it relates to NYRA.

If only, like the flu, there was a shot for that.

[Tom]

If that many horses are not shipping in due to rules, what does it say about the tracks that they go to?

[Robert Goren]

Did you read the part about how they were mandated to lower the purses on claimers? That negates the effects of slot money pretty much completely.So where the slot money going? Did the little guy get a huge raise?:rolleyes:
I don't bet much, but about 90% of my bets are on AQU race these days. I am not against NYRA any more than any other race track management. They all are pretty bad. I just don't think that slots are the answer to any of racing's problems espicially field size unlike some of the posters seemed to think to think it would do last year. I haven't seen where slot fueled purses have increased field size and the slot have certainly hurt the number of handicappers. When slots are close by, many horse players move to the slots. How many thread have we had on that problem. Slots were suppose save NY racing. What has happened instead is talk of a soccer stadium replacing Belmont park. Whether talk is serious or not almost doesn't matter. A few years ago, this kind of talk would have never even happened.
The purse changes were mandated only on the very bottom claiming races where it was thought to be some "injured" horses running or that was what was reported. The slot money was suppose eliminate to those kinds of races completely and replace them with races with better horses and larger fields or so I was told. That hasn't happened yet.

[Robert Goren]

If that many horses are not shipping in due to rules, what does it say about the tracks that they go to?Actually, I like to know what tracks are taking those horses.

[OTM Al]

If that many horses are not shipping in due to rules, what does it say about the tracks that they go to?

That they have more permissive policies in those states and better purses and lower claiming levels than what Aqueduct can offer. Not sure that was the answer you were angling for, but those are the most basic facts.

[Tom]

That they have more permissive policies in those states


That was it.....I was giving kudos to NYRA.:ThmbUp:

[OTM Al]

So where the slot money going? Did the little guy get a huge raise?:rolleyes:
I don't bet much, but about 90% of my bets are on AQU race these days. I am not against NYRA any more than any other race track management. They all are pretty bad. I just don't think that slots are the answer to any of racing's problems espicially field size unlike some of the posters seemed to think to think it would do last year. I haven't seen where slot fueled purses have increased field size and the slot have certainly hurt the number of handicappers. When slots are close by, many horse players move to the slots. How many thread have we had on that problem. Slots were suppose save NY racing. What has happened instead is talk of a soccer stadium replacing Belmont park. Whether talk is serious or not almost doesn't matter. A few years ago, this kind of talk would have never even happened.
The purse changes were mandated only on the very bottom claiming races where it was thought to be some "injured" horses running or that was what was reported. The slot money was suppose eliminate to those kinds of races completely and replace them with races with better horses and larger fields or so I was told. That hasn't happened yet.

The money hasn't gone anywhere. The big part of winter races is made up of claimers. To get bigger and better fields, you have to be able to get horses to come run from neighboring states. If you don't offer lower levels, bigger purses, or have a much more restrictive medication policy, these horses won't come and some horses that would have been on your grounds of all levels will leave. Do you understand that these moves in the name of safety have completely nullified and advantage that the slots money created on a day to day basis? No, I didn't think so.

[aaron]

Every winter,the complaint is short fields at Aqueduct. From my vantage point,there seems to be enough races or bets where you can make a score. The Pick 6 has carried over quite a few times,so enough favorites are getting beat.It is true,that you have to be closer to perfect in some scenarios than at Belmont and Saratoga,but the good bets are there. What's wrong with a cold $16.00 exacta or double ? It beats spreading around and hoping you'll hit your jackpot payoff.
Now I'll have to see if I can follow my own advice.

[OTM Al]

That they have more permissive policies in those states


That was it.....I was giving kudos to NYRA.:ThmbUp:


And the final simple fact is that many of those people screaming about safety and drugs will look at the field size, say NYRA sucks, and go bet somewhere else. Without forcing all states to have the same rules, which is never going to happen, tracks are better off being more permissive and running higher purse levels for low end claimers. That is simple economics.

[OTM Al]

Every winter,the complaint is short fields at Aqueduct. From my vantage point,there seems to be enough races or bets where you can make a score. The Pick 6 has carried over quite a few times,so enough favorites are getting beat.It is true,that you have to be closer to perfect in some scenarios than at Belmont and Saratoga,but the good bets are there. What's wrong with a cold $16.00 exacta or double ? It beats spreading around and hoping you'll hit your jackpot payoff.
Now I'll have to see if I can follow my own advice.

I agree. Big fields means there's a chance for a huge score, but doesn't mean you are going to be the one hitting it. I like big fields, but I like winning more and am happy to take small wins over losses any day. It's all about picking your spot and being patient and realistic.

[Robert Goren]

The money hasn't gone anywhere. The big part of winter races is made up of claimers. To get bigger and better fields, you have to be able to get horses to come run from neighboring states. If you don't offer lower levels, bigger purses, or have a much more restrictive medication policy, these horses won't come and some horses that would have been on your grounds of all levels will leave. Do you understand that these moves in the name of safety have completely nullified and advantage that the slots money created on a day to day basis? No, I didn't think so. Then why even bother with the slots if all they are going to do is steal gamblers from horse racing? If slot fueled purses don't bring better quality racing, why even have them? I did not think reason for NY slots was steal horses from Parx. I thought it was steal good horses from Gulfstream and SA, at least that was the talk of the posters here last winter.

[OTM Al]

Then why even bother with the slots if all they are going to do is steal gamblers from horse racing? If slot fueled purses don't bring better quality racing, why even have them? I did not think reason for NY slots was steal horses from Parx. I thought it was steal good horses from Gulfstream and SA, at least that was the talk of the posters here last winter.

D = M / V

I give up.

[Onion Monster]

On a synthetic inner track we may see paces so slow time may fold in upon itself. Most of the riders think they're on the fake stuff anyhow. That inner jock colony stinks on ice.

A synth track would be good news if you had a decent state-bred turf horse, though.

[JustRalph]

D = M / V

I give up.

Thanks for playing!

It's almost a racing paradox. It seems that in these slot fueled tracks, the more you do right, or attempt to do right......the more you hurt yourself

It's a damn shame.

[tzipi]

I also think as someone pointed out the 80% decline of shippers from the new drug rules hurts the fields. But it's not NYRA's fault as they are doing the right thing by trying to control the drugs but end up getting hurt in the process.

[classhandicapper]

If NYRA is not getting as many shippers because other states have more permissive drug rules, then IMO they should advertise that NY racing is cleaner to gamblers, owners, and trainers who might prefer a cleaner environment.

It's of no use to take the high rode if players don't know about it and think about it correctly. You want people to think of clean racing as an advantage for gambling purposes and possibly shift betting there instead of playing on another circuit where the drug policy is more permissive.

It's of no use to take the high rode if trainers and owners don't know about it. You want them to see NY as a more level playing field where they aren't losing races and purses to drugged up horses and cheaters.

Granted, most already probably know this (and there's also probably more work to do in that regard), but I think a little advertising could make some people rethink where they want to race and gamble and shift the dynamic.

[Robert Goren]

Hadn't even considered another change that happened a while back causing the shorter fields but down at the bottom of this DRF article

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-considers-cutback-inner-track-racing-schedule

it is cited that shippers are down 80% since the new drug rules went into place. Very predictable and says a lot. One must imagine some horses that also normally would have been on the grounds aren't there anymore either for the same reason.So basically, they are saying that horse racing is bicycle racing and that if you try to run a drug free race, nobody will show up.

[Robert Goren]

Today is really bad. at least the claimers and Md races have at least 6 horses. The 75k stakes has 5. A 64k OC50k nw of 3x started with 5 horse and is down to 3. Amazing. When there is no turf racing, NYRA has problems. Even the summer, its dirt races have trouble filling and they end up with 4 or 5 turf races.

[Al Gobbi]

just 60 horses entered for Friday - so little that they all fit on one page of the overnight sheet.

[Linny]

Twice last week the pp's for AQU ran to only 17 pages. (I am saving on toner and paper!)

Someone suggested that training at AQU is hard on horses but most of the horses running in the winter are at Belmont. Yes, it's tough to train when bitter cold and other conditions can play havoc with schedules, but every trainer faces that.

PJ has really had to "gerrymander" the conditions to fill what he can. many of the "beaten" claimers include 3 different conditions of eligibility. Clearly the bigger outfits and the ones with their elite strings in FLA are picking and choosing their spots, as they do all year round. The Racing Office isn't going to "strongarm" the Motts and Pletchers or Chad Brown or McLaughlin.

Another factor is that the foal crop is down from 2007 or so levels. There are fewer to choose from.

As for the clenbuterol rules, they have a big impact. Please though, don't start saying "they took away the juice..." This is a drug that most horses train on and they have effectively blocked that pool of horses. Whoever said they should promote themselves as "cleaner," I think that they have and the trainers have spoken! Purses in PA and MD are clearly sufficient for those outfits that once shipped often to NY. remember how the holding barn was supposed to show how clean NY was and attract more horses? It inconvenienced horsemen, especially shippers in.

[jk3521]

Looks like the only day of the week we can count on decent size fields is on saturdays and only races 6 thru 9 ,the guaranteed pick4 payout races. Why does this work out this way? Are the horsemen given some kind of incentive to enter their charges in those races? Just seems funny.

[Robert Goren]

It ain't like PA and Md are having full fields of decent horses either!

[jeebus1083]

I read in DRF back in December that last year, shippers made up 10% of the horse population at Aqueduct. An 80% drop hurts a little, but I would imagine that the loss is marginal. Horses on the grounds on the other hand...

[andtheyreoff]

just 60 horses entered for Friday - so little that they all fit on one page of the overnight sheet.

Just for comparison's sake, on the comparable day last year (1/27/12), there were 76 entries- a 27% decrease.

[Robert Goren]

Just for comparison's sake, on the comparable day last year (1/27/12), there were 76 entries- a 27% decrease.And the fields weren't exactly over flowing last year.

[MightBeSosa]

Try to explain why the handle is still so high in NY. You'd think with these horrible cards, that it would be down 30%. Is it?

[PaceAdvantage]

At the first whisper of a synthetic track Crist writes a column denouncing synthetics in New York. Any poker players in the house have any doubts about how weak drf's hand is when it comes to synthetics... If i were across the table from him I'd slow play him til he was broke.Del Mar and Hollywood don't sell the DRF anymore?

Arlington?

Turfway?

Hmmm...who knew?

[bisket]

Actually drf has the best tool for synthetics... formulator. That is beside the point. I guess drf's biggest problem with this fact is a handicapper needs to have a "clue" to use the pps properly. This cuts out a good percentage of their customers. I would also like to add I admire Crist and many of the handicappers from drf. What I have a problem with is it's our job to try and figure out which horse is the fastest. It's not our place to have any input on the conditions the horses race under!!!!!! Maybe we're gonna have to learn a new trick? Crist gives broad generalizations in his article about what horseman and others in the industry think about synthetics. He doesn't even bother to interview anyone to support his statements. From the very beginning professional handicappers have taken every opportunity to complain about synthetics. It's obvious it's because they aren't confident in their picks... So they constantly take every chance they get to criticize racing on the surface.

here's a link to his article:
http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist-synthetic-inner-track-would-create-more-problems-it-would-solve

Why is the turf course at Saratoga turning trainers away in the mornings for training during the summer? Why are turf races always full, and tracks have to go to greater lengths to fill dirt races? A good percentage of our horses develop problems racing and training on dirt. Heck all they really might need is a synthetic track to train on!!!! Notice how many trainers race their young derby prospects on turf lately..... It's because it's easy on the hooves. Synthetics solve this problem as well. Face it our love affair with speed has taken the stoutness away needed for a good dirt horse. We're left with more horses that need to at least train on a surface other than dirt to race regularly on dirt. Cappers can piss and moan all they want.... They're eventually gonna lose this battle. How many track are gonna go under before we say uncle?

[shouldacoulda]

It ain't like PA and Md are having full fields of decent horses either!

I remember reading an article by Beyer over a year ago about the predicted shortage of race horses. He stated that as a result of the financial meltdown in 2008 many breeders went under and the birth rate of thoroughbreds fell off. He made a point to mention the Tampa area but said it would affect the industry as a whole. If he is correct, it will get a little worse before it gets better.

[Al Gobbi]

NYRA board passes motion to reduce winter meet by seven days. Needs legislation approval though.

[FantasticDan]

4 day race week agreed on:

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-board-looking-shorter-winter-race-week-new-top-executive

Trakus also to be put in later this year.

[Al Gobbi]

4 day race week agreed on:

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-board-looking-shorter-winter-race-week-new-top-executive

Trakus also to be put in later this year.

I give it two years before 4 day race weeks are the norm at Aqueduct and Belmont.

[bisket]

I remember reading an article by Beyer over a year ago about the predicted shortage of race horses. He stated that as a result of the financial meltdown in 2008 many breeders went under and the birth rate of thoroughbreds fell off. He made a point to mention the Tampa area but said it would affect the industry as a whole. If he is correct, it will get a little worse before it gets better.


If we were having this discussion prior to 2008 I would agree with Beyer. That economy ain't coming back anytime soon. We're gonna need to get more racing out of a smaller population of horses. A good percentage of our runners come from Northern Dancer. A very fast horse on dirt, but lots of hoof issues which makes his line more accommodating to turf racing. He's not the only line that's like this. Yeah many of these types are very fast on dirt, but can't race and train on dirt on a regular basis and stay racing sound. I think New York is probably in a much better position to take advantage of this than California because all of New York's establishments have multiple tracks. I think it would be wise to have at least one synthetic surface at all the tracks. Although Saratoga might be less of a necessity.

[aaron]

So when does the 4 day week start ?

[bisket]

One other point about changes to Belmont. There needs to be serious discussion about moving the dirt track to one of the inside courses. 1 1/2 mile races are still the norm for turf racing, but there really isn't a need for a dirt track at that distance anymore. I also think this might improve their chances of landing a Breeders Cup event. The Classic wouldn't start on the turn eliminating half the field shortly after the break.

[OTM Al]

So when does the 4 day week start ?

Hey aaron. Legislation needs to be passed to allow this. The number of race dates is determined by law, so law must be enacted to allow a reduction. So this is in the hands of Albany now, which makes this anyone's guess.

[Tom]

One other point about changes to Belmont. There needs to be serious discussion about moving the dirt track to one of the inside courses. 1 1/2 mile races are still the norm for turf racing, but there really isn't a need for a dirt track at that distance anymore. I also think this might improve their chances of landing a Breeders Cup event. The Classic wouldn't start on the turn eliminating half the field shortly after the break.

I like that idea - the main track switched to turf, the dirt track moving inside where they can card two-turn races.

[aaron]

Hey aaron. Legislation needs to be passed to allow this. The number of race dates is determined by law, so law must be enacted to allow a reduction. So this is in the hands of Albany now, which makes this anyone's guess.
Thanks Al,
I wonder if it will be passed for this year.

[Cholly]

I like that idea - the main track switched to turf, the dirt track moving inside where they can card two-turn races.

Me, too. I'm sure that "Beautiful Belmont Park"'s current layout is visually stunning--I hope to visit one day. But for watching on the small screen, the layout for dirt races is too much akin to drag racing; one mile races around two turns are more interesting to watch (and wager).

[PaceAdvantage]

I've been watching and going to Belmont since 1987...I don't want to change a thing...why do people want to change Belmont and make it like other tracks?

And as for the Belmont main track being a hindrance to landing another Breeders' Cup...I'd say that thinking is way off. The track layout has nothing to do with whether or not the BC lands at Belmont again.

I mean hell, didn't they run the BC Dirt Mile on a non-dirt track? :lol:

[Tom]

The first two or three runnings of it were not dirt miles, when you consider on eo them was a 1m70 and two were on poly! :rolleyes:

[NTamm1215]

Don't tell Saint Liam (post 13) or Tiznow (post 11) or Cigar (post 10) that the outside posts are a disadvantage going 10fs at Belmont.

[aaron]

I've been watching and going to Belmont since 1987...I don't want to change a thing...why do people want to change Belmont and make it like other tracks?

And as for the Belmont main track being a hindrance to landing another Breeders' Cup...I'd say that thinking is way off. The track layout has nothing to do with whether or not the BC lands at Belmont again.

I mean hell, didn't they run the BC Dirt Mile on a non-dirt track? :lol:
In my opinion Belmont is the best track. I will never understand why they can't get anyone to go. I've been going to NYRA tracks for longer than I care to remember and have always felt Belmont was the best. This is no knock on Saratoga which is a destination track that I feel everyone should go to at least once,but for everyday racing,I think Belmont is great.

[wonatthewire1]

The AQU inner cards look very similar to the ones before the casino/slots money boosted the purses.


but baby, it's cold outside!

[wonatthewire1]

And the fields weren't exactly over flowing last year.

Dude, you are just about the thickest skull

IT'S THE WEATHER - would you, if you had the means and the time, be in NY (average temp 20-30) or in FLA (in the 70's and 80's)

NO CONTEST

[Robert Goren]

Dude, you are just about the thickest skull

IT'S THE WEATHER - would you, if you had the means and the time, be in NY (average temp 20-30) or in FLA (in the 70's and 80's)

NO CONTEST Money speaks louder than than weather otherwise nobody would live in NYC. There is a reason more people live NYC than in Miami. Using your logic more people would be living Miami.
As to where I would rather lived, the answer is neither. Both places are Hell holes as far am I concerned.

[Stillriledup]

Dude, you are just about the thickest skull

IT'S THE WEATHER - would you, if you had the means and the time, be in NY (average temp 20-30) or in FLA (in the 70's and 80's)

NO CONTEST

People who actually have jobs (yikes, perish the thought!) in NYC make more money and live there because the pay is better. I'm close with a guy who was a lawyer in Manhattan and he took less money to live in Florida and practice law down there, but many people will suck it up and stay in the cold for the higher paycheck.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Money speaks louder than than weather otherwise nobody would live in NYC. There is a reason more people live NYC than in Miami. Using your logic more people would be living Miami...

*********

Gulfstream: MSW3yo sprint - $52,500
Aqueduct: MSW3yo sprint - $60,000

*********

Gulfstream: MCL$25k4+sprint - $23,750 (includes $4750 FOA)
Aqueduct: MCL$25k4+sprint - $30,000

*********

Gulfstream: CLM$20kN2L4+sprint - $23,750 (includes $4750 FOA)
Aqueduct: CLM$20kN2L4+sprint - $30,000

*********

Gulfstream: CLM$17.5k-15kOpen4+route - $27,500 (includes $5500 FOA)
Aqueduct: CLM$16kOpen4+route - $30,000

*********

MSW, MCL, cheap conditioned claimers, open claimers - I'm thinking this is a pretty good batch of examples of where your big fields come from in most books. So they go to Florida to run for the money?

Or was there no relevance at all to what the poster said about either NY or FLA? It can be a bit tough to have any clue what you are contending in general and in this case, I'm not sure what you are trying to allege here. You say money is the defining factor in population, but yet, lament the field sizes and say that the money hasn't helped...

...What the hell are you trying to say?

Using his logic more people would be in FLA because of the weather and using your logic more people would be in NY because of the money, but when it comes to horses, people don't run in NY because the money is so good?

Huh?

[Beachbabe]

*********


MSW, MCL, cheap conditioned claimers, open claimers - I'm thinking this is a pretty good batch of examples of where your big fields come from in most books. So they go to Florida to run for the money?

Or was there no relevance at all to what the poster said about either NY or FLA? It can be a bit tough to have any clue what you are contending in general and in this case, I'm not sure what you are trying to allege here. You say money is the defining factor in population, but yet, lament the field sizes and say that the money hasn't helped...

...What the hell are you trying to say?

Using his logic more people would be in FLA because of the weather and using your logic more people would be in NY because of the money, but when it comes to horses, people don't run in NY because the money is so good?

Huh?


I find it most revealing that he can insult the millions of people who live in both cities.....or rather "hellholes".

Fricken amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way, Aqueduct isn't in NYC & Gulfstream isn't in Miami

[alhattab]

Don't tell Saint Liam (post 13) or Tiznow (post 11) or Cigar (post 10) that the outside posts are a disadvantage going 10fs at Belmont.

Or Unbridled (post 14)

[RXB]

[QUOTE=Beachbabe

by the way, Aqueduct isn't in NYC[/QUOTE]

Um, actually it is in NYC. Belmont is the one just outside of NYC.

[OTM Al]

Um, actually it is in NYC. Belmont is the one just outside of NYC.

Actually Belmont sits on the border of Queens county and Nassau county so part is in and part is out of NYC.

[RXB]

Actually Belmont sits on the border of Queens county and Nassau county so part is in and part is out of NYC.

Okay, there's a tiny bit of the Belmont Park land that spills into Queens but the Belmont racing surfaces, grandstand, training track are all in Nassau County.

[PaceAdvantage]

by the way, Aqueduct isn't in NYC & Gulfstream isn't in MiamiAqueduct most certainly is in NYC.

New York City is comprised of the five boroughs. Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. Aqueduct is in Queens.

[burnsy]

Try to explain why the handle is still so high in NY. You'd think with these horrible cards, that it would be down 30%. Is it?

Because people that bet seriously are not intrested in Beulah and the minor tracks....they will always go towards the best horses and trainers whether the field is 5 or 6 horses versus 11 horses that stink and are very inconsistant. This is a bad time of year for Ny but at least the results are somewhat predictable.....people that bet alot will take form over "chances and value" every time. Thats why a 5 horse field at Gulfstream or Aqueduct will get more money than any other track running during the afternoon. People betting big will put money on lower odds with a better chance of winning than an 11 horse field with crap shoot horses that run differently week to week. Some of these Aqueduct races are like shooting fish in a barrel...the whales could care less if the winner pays 3 dollars to 9 dollars because the chances of actually winning are very high with racing like this. People seem not to understand this. There are big gamblers that clean up on this racing.......its like stealing when there are 5 horses and only 2 or 3 have a chance to win and in many races its more like one or two have a chance.....they could care less if its 4-5 because the chances of cashing CONSISTANTLY are very high. People betting this kind of money are NOT into "taking chances" when they see easy pay days. Most of us "shop" for value...they will hammer a 3-5 or 2-1 and laugh all winter long....thats why the handle stays good for NY. The state knows this and takes advantage by NOT (allowing) limiting the days or the number of races on the card. It all comes down to money folks and they will run these cards until the handle becomes an issue or someone does something about it.
The weather is also a factor.....despite what that one (thick headed) guy posts....he must be from the sticks because many sucessful people have two homes or more. The best jockeys, trainers, owners or whatever will leave NY for 3 months to be out of here. Its not a matter of money, they have the money to winter in FLA, so they do. Come to Saratoga there are many,many vacant homes this time of year. Some people really need to get out more or travel....their field of vision is very narrow.

[Beachbabe]

Aqueduct most certainly is in NYC.

New York City is comprised of the five boroughs. Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. Aqueduct is in Queens.


My bad !!!!!

Obviously, I'm not familiar with the "borough" thing. I always picture NYC as Manhattan.
That'll teach me to keep my mouth shut. :blush:

[Stillriledup]

Because people that bet seriously are not intrested in Beulah and the minor tracks....they will always go towards the best horses and trainers whether the field is 5 or 6 horses versus 11 horses that stink and are very inconsistant. This is a bad time of year for Ny but at least the results are somewhat predictable.....people that bet alot will take form over "chances and value" every time. Thats why a 5 horse field at Gulfstream or Aqueduct will get more money than any other track running during the afternoon. People betting big will put money on lower odds with a better chance of winning than an 11 horse field with crap shoot horses that run differently week to week. Some of these Aqueduct races are like shooting fish in a barrel...the whales could care less if the winner pays 3 dollars to 9 dollars because the chances of actually winning are very high with racing like this. People seem not to understand this. There are big gamblers that clean up on this racing.......its like stealing when there are 5 horses and only 2 or 3 have a chance to win and in many races its more like one or two have a chance.....they could care less if its 4-5 because the chances of cashing CONSISTANTLY are very high. People betting this kind of money are NOT into "taking chances" when they see easy pay days. Most of us "shop" for value...they will hammer a 3-5 or 2-1 and laugh all winter long....thats why the handle stays good for NY. The state knows this and takes advantage by NOT (allowing) limiting the days or the number of races on the card. It all comes down to money folks and they will run these cards until the handle becomes an issue or someone does something about it.
The weather is also a factor.....despite what that one (thick headed) guy posts....he must be from the sticks because many sucessful people have two homes or more. The best jockeys, trainers, owners or whatever will leave NY for 3 months to be out of here. Its not a matter of money, they have the money to winter in FLA, so they do. Come to Saratoga there are many,many vacant homes this time of year. Some people really need to get out more or travel....their field of vision is very narrow.

I like shorter fields, gives me a better chance to cash a ticket and churn.

[wonatthewire1]

Money speaks louder than than weather otherwise nobody would live in NYC. There is a reason more people live NYC than in Miami. Using your logic more people would be living Miami.
As to where I would rather lived, the answer is neither. Both places are Hell holes as far am I concerned.


Hopeless

Keep betting on the races - and filling up my pockets

[wonatthewire1]

People who actually have jobs (yikes, perish the thought!) in NYC make more money and live there because the pay is better. I'm close with a guy who was a lawyer in Manhattan and he took less money to live in Florida and practice law down there, but many people will suck it up and stay in the cold for the higher paycheck.


Ever hear of snowbirds??? I'm not retired yet but live up north and have a place in Venice, FLA

I'm up in NYC area for work too, love going to FLA when the wind is howling...

Also, we pay a lot more (like $14,500 in property taxes), have state income taxes (don't got that in FLA) - so cost of living probably balances a lot of that "less money" angle...

[Al Gobbi]

just announced no racing February 6th.

[Valuist]

*********

Gulfstream: MSW3yo sprint - $52,500
Aqueduct: MSW3yo sprint - $60,000

*********

Gulfstream: MCL$25k4+sprint - $23,750 (includes $4750 FOA)
Aqueduct: MCL$25k4+sprint - $30,000

*********

Gulfstream: CLM$20kN2L4+sprint - $23,750 (includes $4750 FOA)
Aqueduct: CLM$20kN2L4+sprint - $30,000

*********

Gulfstream: CLM$17.5k-15kOpen4+route - $27,500 (includes $5500 FOA)
Aqueduct: CLM$16kOpen4+route - $30,000

*********

MSW, MCL, cheap conditioned claimers, open claimers - I'm thinking this is a pretty good batch of examples of where your big fields come from in most books. So they go to Florida to run for the money?

Or was there no relevance at all to what the poster said about either NY or FLA? It can be a bit tough to have any clue what you are contending in general and in this case, I'm not sure what you are trying to allege here. You say money is the defining factor in population, but yet, lament the field sizes and say that the money hasn't helped...

...What the hell are you trying to say?

Using his logic more people would be in FLA because of the weather and using your logic more people would be in NY because of the money, but when it comes to horses, people don't run in NY because the money is so good?

Huh?

Apparently money isn't everything otherwise there would be more good horses who hang around all winter in New York. Its one thing to have a major quality falloff, but when the fields are small, there's no compelling reason to follow that product from December thru March.

[Al Gobbi]

NYRA has applied to cancel racing on the following days, needs state approval:

February 6
February 13
February 14
February 27

March 6
March 13

next 5 day week would be the week of the Wood Memorial due to Palm Sunday/Easter restrictions.

[OTM Al]

NYRA has applied to cancel racing on the following days, needs state approval:

February 6
February 13
February 14
February 27

March 6
March 13

next 5 day week would be the week of the Wood Memorial due to Palm Sunday/Easter restrictions.

They just put out the press release indicating these have been approved