There he goes again.....

[Tom]

Obama giving yet another speech.....lying through his teeth and blaming republicans for everything. The great divider.

Repubs, just destroy this bum and stop everything he tries to do.....just for the heck of it. His failures are our fortunes.

[horses4courses]

Thanks for the update

[Mike at A+]

Watching a split screen of the idiot saying how he's reducing debt and the US Government National Debt Clock.

Helloooooooooo McFly!?

[Tom]

This one is actually a bit funny - he is sooooooooooo far from reality, one almost feels sorry for him, until you remember he is not simply ignorant, he is evil. :lol::lol::lol:

[hcap]

16 more years! :lol: :lol:

[horses4courses]

16 more years! :lol: :lol:

at the very least...... ;)

[hcap]

at the very least...... ;)

Talk about all them exploding heads here.....

I wonder if Tom will become a liberal if Tea Parties case to exist?

Sort of like if a con commits suicide in a barren forest and there is no one around to hear :)

[Tom]

Now he's saying no one has to worry about losing their guns.
Much like no one under 250K would see their taxes go up, but 77% of all taxpayers just say them go up.

He lies.

Now he is talking about "his" budget......but none was ever passed, even by his own party! :lol:

16 years?
Foolish speculation....and, if anything, it is 12 - 4 for him 8 for the next dem bub. Forget the absurdity of that, your math, as usual, is off. :lol:

[horses4courses]

Now he's saying no one has to worry about losing their guns.
Much like no one under 250K would see their taxes go up, but 77% of all taxpayers just say them go up.

He lies.

Now he is talking about "his" budget......but none was ever passed, even by his own party! :lol:

16 years?
Foolish speculation....and, if anything, it is 12 - 4 for him 8 for the next dem bub. Forget the absurdity of that, your math, as usual, is off. :lol:

Don't be so sure our math is wrong.
Mike A+ hits the nail on the head in that other thread (or so he thinks).
According to him, all the worthless leeches in society will keep a Dem in the WH. Now that's absurd, is it not?

[Tom]

When half he country depends on the other half, dems can count of all of their votes.

Tough to beat Santa.
Republicans ask you to be responsible, accountable.
Democrat pay to do nothing.

Try out that math.

[Tom]

Maybe our resident lib-geniuses can help me out here.
I distinctly heard your boy say today that not raising the ceiling would be irresponsible, and congress had no choice but to do it. He even "volunteered" to take on the duties himself.

So why is it so important NOW,, but when Bush was president.....
Is the work I'm looking for here hypocrite, or liar?

Help me out here, guys.:rolleyes:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/obama-says-not-raising-debt-ceiling-is-absurd-but-voted-against-in-raising-debt-ceiling-in-2006/

President Obama used the final press conference of his first term to warn congressional Republicans that he will not negotiate with them (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/01/14/obama-news-conference/1832589/) over the debt ceiling, saying “To even entertain the idea (of not raising the debt ceiling), it’s absurd.”

But back 2006 Barack Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling (http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-voted-against-debt-ceiling-increase-2006-2013-1).

And in July 2008 Barack Obama said President Bush was “unpatriotic” and “irresponsible” for raising the debt by $4 trillion.
(Barack Obama added $5.8 trillion his first four years in office.)

Wazzup here?????

[JustRalph]

I don't doubt it at all. 16 yrs might be a foregone conclusion.

Stoopid conservatives need to wake up and realize they lost this culture war a long time ago.

[elysiantraveller]

Lets see what factcheck says about it...

Fact Check! (http://factcheck.org/2013/01/fudging-on-the-fiscal-cliff-deal/)

... the last paragraph is actually quite funny because a lot of people on here have argued both ways as well.

[Tom]

Funny, I post a comment about Obama and Heckle and Jeckle jump right with thier typrical lib responses, then I post the evidence that what I started the thread about was true and they disappear.

Can't you two comment on your boy's flip flop? :lol::lol:

[hcap]

Lets see what factcheck says about it...

Fact Check! (http://factcheck.org/2013/01/fudging-on-the-fiscal-cliff-deal/)

... the last paragraph is actually quite funny because a lot of people on here have argued both ways as well.Of course you forgot to mention that the payroll tax cuts were originated by Obama and the Dems.

"In a victory for the Obama administration during the lame duck session (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/payroll-tax-cut-obama-administration_n_2194356.html) of 2010, Congress reduced the payroll tax rate from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent, giving the average U.S. household an additional $1,000 per year. "

Obama would not have gotten an extension dealing with the rethugs in 2013

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-31/business/36323658_1_payroll-tax-income-tax-tax-rates

"While the Obama administration fought for the payroll tax cut in previous years to goose a weak economic recovery, the White House has been more ambivalent this year. Before the election, even as prominent Democratic economists and lawmakers argued in favor of extending the tax cut, the White House declined to call for its renewal.

Then, during its post-election talks with congressional Republicans, the Obama administration requested an extension. But Republican lawmakers were skeptical, viewing the payroll tax holiday as contributing to federal deficits because the Treasury had borrow money to replace payroll tax revenue, which ordinarily would go to fund Social Security. The administration quickly dropped the payroll tax cut from negotiations."

“I know for a fact that the White House economists think about it much the same way I do — as a very important part of stimulus in 2013 — but I think they just judged they couldn’t get it,” said Bernstein, who served as a top adviser to Vice President Biden.

[Tom]

Post #11?

[elysiantraveller]

Of course you forgot to mention that the payroll tax cuts were originated by Obama and the Dems.

:)

I did nothing of the sort.

I was simply putting up what Factcheck said about his statements yesterday. I don't even know what your issue is, Factcheck is a source you routinely use whenever it is convenient for you.

If you have any qualms about what they said I suggest you address them at:

www.factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org)

Buzz along drone...

[hcap]

Tom

Post #11? And maybe our resident lib-geniuses can help me out here.
I distinctly heard your boy say today that not raising the ceiling would be irresponsible, and congress had no choice but to do it. He even "volunteered" to take on the duties himself.

So why is it so important NOW,, but when Bush was president.....
Is the work I'm looking for here hypocrite, or liar?

Help me out here, guys.:rolleyes:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/obama-says-not-raising-debt-ceiling-is-absurd-but-voted-against-in-raising-debt-ceiling-in-2006/

Wazzup here?????Wazzup is you are missing an important distinction....as usual you re regurgitating the rightie echo chamber bull...in this case Byron York.

"Republicans in 2006 enjoyed majorities in both the House (232-203) and the Senate (55-45). As Reid rightly pointed out, "The Republicans were in power—there were more of them." To be sure, Democrats were trying to score political points at President Bush's expense. But there were no threats, no filibusters and no risk to the full faith and credit of the United States.

Go back down to the permafrost level in northern NYS.

[hcap]

:)

I did nothing of the sort.

I was simply putting up what Factcheck said about his statements yesterday. I don't even know what your issue is, Factcheck is a source you routinely use whenever it is convenient for you.

If you have any qualms about what they said I suggest you address them at:

www.factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org)

Buzz along drone...Obviously you did not read the Factcheck artical critically, or you would not have posted it. We all know the down side of NOT extending the payroll tax cuts. Big deal. But the emphasis should be on why the extension could not be done. The payroll tax cuts were never a favorite of the rethugs as well as most legislation that is designed to help the poor and middle class. TO PRETEND OTHERWISE IS TOTALLY DISHONEST. DRONE

[Tom]

So Obama was lying back then?

[hcap]

ALL PARTIES do it to score political points against the other party. Generally the party in power.

But it never was coupled with holding the country hostage

[Tom]

No hostages were taken.
Sequestration was passed and signed by Obama - all nice and legal.
What is your problem...that they had to agree to spending cuts?
Now, with the tax cuts in place, we can REALLY play politics with the debt ceiling. Just like the dems always do - time to play ball, dude.

btw, holding America hostage is the realm of Harry Reid, who refuses to do his job and pass a budget, or bring bills up for votes. Your boys are the bad guys here. Impudent Harry Reid.....can't bring anything up.

[elysiantraveller]

Obviously you did not read the Factcheck artical critically, or you would not have posted it. We all know the down side of NOT extending the payroll tax cuts. Big deal. But the emphasis should be on why the extension could not be done. The payroll tax cuts were never a favorite of the rethugs as well as most legislation that is designed to help the poor and middle class. TO PRETEND OTHERWISE IS TOTALLY DISHONEST. DRONE

Buzzzzzz....

“This [Payroll Tax Cut] has to be a temporary tax cut, I don’t see any reason to consider supporting its extension.”

- Tim Geithner February 2012

“Standing on its own, I think we need to give consideration of what it does to the Social Security trust fund.”

- Richard Neal (D-MA)

And who could forget good ole Nancy?

"I would hope that we would not extend it."

- Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)

So when you say Republicans were against it you also mean several Democrats including senior leadership and the President's appointed Treasury Secretary?

Don't bother responding I really have no desire to argue something I didn't even say, one of your sources did. You are nothing but a drone that offers no original thought but straight party dogma... Tom is more original than you... right, wrong, or indifferent he at least demonstrates the ability to think for himself other than just regurgitate what he reads on blogs.

Buzzzzzz...

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc6/s160x160/179965_10151016204329571_923359497_a.jpg

[Tom]

BTW, that was another lie Obama told - no one making under 250K would see a tax increase. 77%of us are paying more this year than last.

hcap, for our benefit, could you post a list of all the lies Obama has told that were not really lies, just politics?

[Mike at A+]

BTW, that was another lie Obama told - no one making under 250K would see a tax increase. 77%of us are paying more this year than last.

hcap, for our benefit, could you post a list of all the lies Obama has told that were not really lies, just politics?
This list is probably incomplete but it's a pretty good start ...

0bama Lies (http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies)

[hcap]

Buzzzzzz....

So when you say Republicans were against it you also mean several Democrats including senior leadership and the President's appointed Treasury Secretary?

Don't bother responding I really have no desire to argue something I didn't even say, one of your sources did. You are nothing but a drone that offers no original thought but straight party dogma... Tom is more original than you... right, wrong, or indifferent he at least demonstrates the ability to think for himself other than just regurgitate what he reads on blogs.

It's obvious that the rethugs would NOT extend them. Obama had to take what he could get. It was sacrificed as part of the year end deal. You are the drone that sees only what you want to see. Rethugs fought Obama him all along from it's start. Do you honestly think that both Obama and the dems would have dropped it's extension if there was not a trade off in the works?. All of this was done in the context of the fiscal cliff deal. And the center of attention the Bush tx cuts and other things like extending long term unemployment benefits.

It's like your bull about Obama being a neocon. Obama is a centrist democrat. I only wish he was MORE to the left. But he is Not a Neo but a realist who plays the game for the most he can get without using the same tactics the rethuigs will do.

From the article where Geither says they should expire which you did not link. You did not do the due diligence needed to see why and when Geither said that The Wash Times.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/feb/16/geithner-payroll-tax-cut-must-be-temporary/

February 16, 2012, 02:32PM

Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner warned Congress against extending the current payroll-tax holiday beyond 2012.

"This has to be a temporary tax cut. I don't see any reason to consider supporting its extension" next year, said Mr. Geithner on Thursday at a Senate Budget Committee hearing.

But Mr. Geithner said he supports a pending bipartisan deal struck this week in Congress to continue the expiring payroll-tax cut and unemployment benefits through the end of the year, saying they are "critically important" to helping shore up a still wobbly economy.


So Geirther said that one year earlier. Trying to ease the pain with the rethugs getting it done THAT YEAR. And you call me a "DRONE"

An interesting commentary....

This is a remarkable demonstration of Republican hypocrisy and Democratic idiocy. The Republicans fight tooth-and-nail against the end of the Bush tax cuts that primarily help the rich (although when they voted them in they did so with an expiration date) but hate the small payroll tax cut that helps the middle class. Somehow, allowing taxes to go up on working men and women seems fine to the Republicans. And the Democrats are too foolish to push the issue


Exactly right. If Obama did not have deal with the rethugs. But he does. Just like I have to deal with people like you.

[elysiantraveller]

So Geirther said that one year earlier. Trying to ease the pain with the rethugs getting it done THAT YEAR. And you call me a "DRONE"

Wait a minute...

So now to continue attacking my point that some Democrats were against extending the payroll tax cut, which I proved with 3 different quotes, you are now speaking for the Treasury Secretary?... :bang:

You are a trip.

Do yourself a favor and just stop... you're embarrassing yourself again.

[hcap]

Wait a minute...

So now to continue attacking my point that some Democrats were against extending the payroll tax cut, which I proved with 3 different quotes, you are now speaking for the Treasury Secretary?... :bang:

You are a trip.

Do yourself a favor and just stop... you're embarrassing yourself again.
Geither said that to help ease the situation one year ago to get it passed then. Pelosi said that congress should let the payroll tax cut expire at the end of the year and instead work toward comprehensive tax reform. She said that back in September of last year. Both did not weigh in recently. But I did post this which you conveniently ignored...

Then, during its post-election talks with congressional Republicans, the Obama administration requested an extension. But Republican lawmakers were skeptical, viewing the payroll tax holiday as contributing to federal deficits because the Treasury had borrow money to replace payroll tax revenue, which ordinarily would go to fund Social Security. The administration quickly dropped the payroll tax cut from negotiations."

“I know for a fact that the White House economists think about it much the same way I do — as a very important part of stimulus in 2013 — but I think they just judged they couldn’t get it,” said Bernstein, who served as a top adviser to Vice President Biden.

[hcap]

One more time0 The rethugs and the white house play hardball. They both try to get as much as they want all the time. After the election, ( I am assuming Obama felt the wind at his back) the White house put it BACK on the table. Did not fly with the rethugs.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/regardless-of-cliff-deal-many-to-see-tax-bill-rise-1.4393942

While the Obama administration fought for the payroll tax cut in previous years to goose a weak economic recovery, the White House has been more ambivalent this year. Before the election, even as prominent Democratic economists and lawmakers argued in favor of extending the tax cut, the White House declined to call for its renewal. Then, in its postelection talks with congressional Republicans, the Obama administration requested an extension.

But GOP lawmakers were skeptical, viewing the payroll tax holiday as contributing to federal deficits because the Treasury had to borrow to offset payroll tax revenue, which funds Social Security. The administration dropped the payroll tax cut from talks.

[elysiantraveller]

Point out where I said Obama didn't support an extension?... :rolleyes:

Thanks for playing hcap!

[hcap]

Point out where I said Obama didn't support an extension?... :rolleyes:

Do you take responsibility for what you post? From the Factcheck article you linked......

"Left out of Obama’s analysis is that a temporary two-year reduction in Social Security payroll taxes was allowed to expire. As a result, most people will actually pay more in taxes this year."

Who "allowed" it to expire? The implication is Obama did.

And rthen there is only this slight vague "fuzzy" nod as to what Obama wanted.
" Extending the payroll tax cut was not part of Obama’s 2013 budget. But whether it was part of the Obama administration’s initial fiscal cliff proposal is a bit fuzzy. As we reported on Dec. 5, the president’s opening offer in the fiscal cliff negotiations included $200 billion in new stimulus spending. At that time, Treasury declined to give us a detailed list of proposals for new spending, but it did confirm published reports that some of the elements of the stimulus plan might include an extension of the Social Security payroll tax holiday, as well as infrastructure spending. Those were not part of the law that passed".NO mention of asking for an extension pot election, and much more importantly....PSST.. no mention of the retugs refusing. And that in fact was the deal killer.

[Tom]

Bottom line - he lied. Taxes went up on 77% of us.
Obama lied.

Lance Armstrong has more cred than the Kenyan Krackpot.

[elysiantraveller]

Do you take responsibility for what you post? From the Factcheck article you linked.......

I said if you have a problem with fact check take it up with fact check. I even provided you a link. Here...

I was simply putting up what Factcheck said about his statements yesterday. I don't even know what your issue is, Factcheck is a source you routinely use whenever it is convenient for you.

If you have any qualms about what they said I suggest you address them at:

www.factcheck.org

Then you blamed the Republicans... shocker I know... :eek:

And I said:

So when you say Republicans were against it you also mean several Democrats including senior leadership and the President's appointed Treasury Secretary?

So now after being called on your bullshit you are attempting to argue Obama wanted them extended... I never said he didn't...

I hope you've enjoyed this drubbing as much as I have... Next time I feel like fighting straight party dogma I'll know where to look...

[hcap]

Bottom line - he lied. Taxes went up on 77% of us.
Obama lied.

Lance Armstrong has more cred than the Kenyan Krackpot.

Sorry, the bottom line is the rethugs killed the payroll extension.
Try to keep up

[Tom]

I hope you've enjoyed this drubbing as much as I have...

It was fun.....thank you.
Always nice to watch a good bitch-slap-fest.

[hcap]

I said if you have a problem with fact check take it up with fact check. I even provided you a link. Here...

I see. you link to it as a hit piece on Obama, then disavow any problems with their accuracy.

Then you blamed the Republicans... shocker I know... :eek:

They were the the problem. Why shouldn't I?

So now being called on your bullshit you are attempting to argue Obama wanted them extended... I never said he didn't...

Not in your own words but the FactCheck article certainly implied it

I hope you've enjoyed this drubbing as much as I have... Next time I feel like fighting to straight party dogma I know where to look...

You have already backtracked a number of time after I pointed out how much a one sided article you linked to...in fact was.

Thanks for playing and caving :)

[elysiantraveller]

You have already backtracked a number of time after I pointed out how much a one sided article you linked to...in fact was.

Thanks for playing and caving :)

Steps of the argument:

1) I post an article from a website you use on here.
2) You argue the article.
3) I choose not to defend the article. Mostly, because I don't care. More so, because I hate factcheck.org, that is well-known on this board.
4) You blame the Republicans.
5) I blame some Democrats.
6) You, via your Nostradamus like ability, speak for senior Administration Officials and exonerate the Democrats.
7) I call you on it. Still contend that many Democrats did not support the extension.
8) You say Obama wanted to extend.
9) I point out that's not relevant since we are arguing #4.
10) You claim I refuse to defend #1.
11) I say we aren't talking about #1, see #3.

Did I miss anything?

Aside from presenting a moving target in this argument the other problem you did is decide to pile on GOP. Since that's patently false I chose to disagree with you... Since you have this ever desperate need to blame all things bad on the "rethugs" as you call them I then decided to call you a drone.

The factcheck article is basically just a bunch of mindless thoughts running together with 1 somewhat sensible paragraph at the very end... I'll be the first to throw it out but boy it sure got you fired up! ;)

You don't actually believe all the shit you post on here do you? :faint: :lol: (He's falling down, then laughing)