Tampa...a feud may be brewing

[Beachbabe]

Jamie Ness saddled 3 horses & had 3 winners today at Tampa today. (Nothing new there).
Two of his winners were claimed. One by Dennis Ward & the other by his son, Wesley.
In the meantime Dennis Ward sent out two today & both were claimed. One by Iadisernia and one by none other than Jamie Ness.

Maybe there's nothing to it.
Stay tuned !!! :cool:

[Stillriledup]

Its amazing that someone is claiming off Ness.

[JustRalph]

Its amazing that someone is claiming off Ness.

That was the first thing that went through my mind too.

[Robert Goren]

The cynic in me says they must think they have better dope than Ness. Or it is a classic case of somebody having more money than brains. A situation that generally corrects itself rather rapidly.

[Big Russ]

And I think the one that Ness claimed (Tripp O Steel) had been claimed by Dennis Ward from Ness in his previous start. That being said, I think it's pretty much just a result of the shrinking horse population. But hey, I'm always up for a good feud.

Jamie Ness saddled 3 horses & had 3 winners today at Tampa today. (Nothing new there).
Two of his winners were claimed. One by Dennis Ward & the other by his son, Wesley.
In the meantime Dennis Ward sent out two today & both were claimed. One by Iadisernia and one by none other than Jamie Ness.

Maybe there's nothing to it.
Stay tuned !!! :cool:

[BIG49010]

Surprised it doesn't happen more often, his horses lay over fields by large margins, if you run them back in the same spot you have a big chance to cash even if they decline a little.

Just don't claim one that is used up!

[Robert Goren]

And to think they are over raking poker players to fuel the purses that causes this stuff to happen. Track management has no shame.

[Beachbabe]

Its amazing that someone is claiming off Ness.


A trainer by the name of Maria Bowersock claimed one from Ness last wednesday.
And Barbara McBride claimed one from him last sunday.

[BMustang]

Geat handicapping angle to bet against horses claimed from Ness, or even Pletcher. They rarely if ever move up and oftentimes take dramatic turns for the worse.

[thespaah]

Its amazing that someone is claiming off Ness.
When I first was learning how things worked on the backstretch, one thing did stand out. I asked a trainer I had worked for about a certain horse one of the owners was eyeing up for a claim. He advised the owner that the horse was more or less a no touch.
THe owner was new in the game and had money.
Case closed.
SO later in the week I asked the boss what that was all about.
He( the trainer) told me that you don't claim from certain barns.
I asked why. He told me that everything comes back. And the trainer would find a way to bury you. I didn't understand and being the skeptical and politically incorrect SOB that I am, wasn't accepting of the explanation.
Anyway. I guess it's true. Little fish does not take food from big fish.

[Not4Love]

Did anyone ever consider if you claim of Ness and you use the same SH..!!. D. Ward and W. ward also have formidable numbers. Barbara mcbride is also hotter than she has ever been before. So whats the problem?


Watch what happens when a trainer in the 12% - 15% range tries to claim one off these guys.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Did anyone ever consider if you claim of Ness and you use the same SH..!!. D. Ward and W. ward also have formidable numbers. Barbara mcbride is also hotter than she has ever been before. So whats the problem?


Watch what happens when a trainer in the 12% - 15% range tries to claim one off these guys.


Yes we have been watching my friend!!...Formidable numbers yes but not like Ness.In all my years of racing and working for the best people in the business,I have never seen anything like this!..This guy claims off anyone and moves them up to numbers that just dont make sense. What is he doing that others arent privy too?,,IF thats the case.Is he cheating?..That has to be determined.A person cant say he is a cheat if they dont have proof.We all have out opinions on this matter.

[Stillriledup]

Yes we have been watching my friend!!...Formidable numbers yes but not like Ness.In all my years of racing and working for the best people in the business,I have never seen anything like this!..This guy claims off anyone and moves them up to numbers that just dont make sense. What is he doing that others arent privy too?,,IF thats the case.Is he cheating?..That has to be determined.A person cant say he is a cheat if they dont have proof.We all have out opinions on this matter.


When human beings perform incredible feats of strength or endurance, we just assume that they're cheating. People like Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds and Marion Jones come to mind. But, when horses show feats of brilliance and overnight success that does not mirror their previous form, we just assume that horses can do this but humans can not.

We think that somehow horses can run one speed for their entire careers and then magically get transformed overnight with a barn change and its all on the up and up but if a human did the same exact thing, we would demand answers and want heads to roll.

In racing, we demand tainted blood or urine or some other strong evidence of cheating or else we can't 'convict' but in pro sports, we dont seem to require the same 'proof'.

There was really no tainted blood or urine on Roger Clemens and yet, we strung this guy up from the flagpoles and sent him thru the justice system but nothing similar like this happens in racing. Trainers perform miraculous feats of 'training' and nobody other than a few hacks on message boards ever say a boo about it.

[v j stauffer]

When human beings perform incredible feats of strength or endurance, we just assume that they're cheating. People like Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds and Marion Jones come to mind. But, when horses show feats of brilliance and overnight success that does not mirror their previous form, we just assume that horses can do this but humans can not.

We think that somehow horses can run one speed for their entire careers and then magically get transformed overnight with a barn change and its all on the up and up but if a human did the same exact thing, we would demand answers and want heads to roll.

In racing, we demand tainted blood or urine or some other strong evidence of cheating or else we can't 'convict' but in pro sports, we dont seem to require the same 'proof'.

There was really no tainted blood or urine on Roger Clemens and yet, we strung this guy up from the flagpoles and sent him thru the justice system but nothing similar like this happens in racing. Trainers perform miraculous feats of 'training' and nobody other than a few hacks on message boards ever say a boo about it.

Barry Bonds hit .370 at age 39. If he didn't cheat there's not one cow standing in the state of Texas.

[davew]

I think they have some good judge of horseflesh working in that group.

[thespaah]

Barry Bonds hit .370 at age 39. If he didn't cheat there's not one cow standing in the state of Texas.
Where'd the cows go? :eek:

[BIG49010]

I think they have some good judge of horseflesh working in that group.

If this were true, you would see them more active at the sales, where there are plenty of cheap horses available. I believe they have something else that they give the horses, I have no idea what it is, but they claimed a 7 yr old off a trainer I know and they claimed the horse back and he was high as a kite when he came back after the race and hasn't run again.

[castaway01]

Geat handicapping angle to bet against horses claimed from Ness, or even Pletcher. They rarely if ever move up and oftentimes take dramatic turns for the worse.

That's actually not true because when people see "Lou Jones" as trainer instead of Ness, it's reflected in the prices. The horse goes off 12-1 instead of 6-5. I tracked this for a while and while you would occasionally get a favorite that lost, most of the time these horses don't get bet in their next starts.

[therussmeister]

If this were true, you would see them more active at the sales, where there are plenty of cheap horses available. I believe they have something else that they give the horses, I have no idea what it is, but they claimed a 7 yr old off a trainer I know and they claimed the horse back and he was high as a kite when he came back after the race and hasn't run again.
If they were not particularly savvy judges of horse flesh, if they could work their magic on just about any horse, why would they claim a 7y.o. There had to be many younger horses available in that price range that week.

[Track Phantom]

Yes we have been watching my friend!!...Formidable numbers yes but not like Ness.In all my years of racing and working for the best people in the business,I have never seen anything like this!..This guy claims off anyone and moves them up to numbers that just dont make sense. What is he doing that others arent privy too?,,IF thats the case.Is he cheating?..That has to be determined.A person cant say he is a cheat if they dont have proof.We all have out opinions on this matter.

Are you kidding me? The days of debating whether Jamie Ness cheats or not have long come and gone.

Take the data points related to Jamie Ness to any insurance underwriter or logical statistician and he'd say 436,400,000-1 he is cheating. You don't need proof. You just need an IQ over 11 and have passed 3rd grade math.

You might be able to lay a claim that he is using something that isn't "technically" illegal...YET. But there is NO CHANCE this guy is working on the same level as honest trainers and getting these results. NO CHANCE. Not even a .00001% chance. To debate it is a waste of time and one should be ashamed of themselves for even trying to formulate an argument that he is legit. He's not. Farthest from it in the entire galaxy. He dwarfs Lance Armstrong.

If people gave even an iota of a sh%t about this sport, Jamie Ness would be having an interview with Oprah instead of Armstrong. Ness would be banned, stripped from training titles, etc. However, this is horse racing, a place where cheaters get Eclipse Awards and accolades. Makes me want to vomit.

[Not4Love]

Yes we have been watching my friend!!...Formidable numbers yes but not like Ness.In all my years of racing and working for the best people in the business,I have never seen anything like this!..This guy claims off anyone and moves them up to numbers that just dont make sense. What is he doing that others arent privy too?,,IF thats the case.Is he cheating?..That has to be determined.A person cant say he is a cheat if they dont have proof.We all have out opinions on this matter.


I just want to make it very clear that I never did say these people are "cheating" . I actually believe the stuff they are using is considered legal or at least derivatives OF IT. If anyone wonders why his numbers might be so high compared to everyone else, I would consider his actual abilities as a trainer. If you have and excellent horseman versus a majority of idiots, of course his numbers will Stand out or " not make sense".

[davew]

I just want to make it very clear that I never did say these people are "cheating" . I actually believe the stuff they are using is considered legal or at least derivatives OF IT. If anyone wonders why his numbers might be so high compared to everyone else, I would consider his actual abilities as a trainer. If you have and excellent horseman versus a majority of idiots, of course his numbers will Stand out or " not make sense".

I do not feel the other trainers are all idiots - even though many have been doing it the majority of their life.

If I was a trainer and truly felt they were cheating against me, I would work to help get him caught and banned - they are staeling from 'my' purse pool.

These horse are running at tracks that 'test both blood and urine', don't they? If the horses are 'high' then they are on something which is not legal. This had to be either injected or feed or applied topically. When would they do this? In the paddock pre-race? Do these tracks have isolation barns for a couple hours before races that horses have to be in?

Whatever this mysterious substance is either has a very quick half live or metabolites that are normally found in serum and urine.

Got any ideas?
From what I have seen watching the races they win, the horses have 'more endurance', in that they can hold their speed longer than other horses, that are slowing down more at the finish.

[cj]

His "stuff" doesn't seem to work in NY.

[Stillriledup]

Are you kidding me? The days of debating whether Jamie Ness cheats or not have long come and gone.

Take the data points related to Jamie Ness to any insurance underwriter or logical statistician and he'd say 436,400,000-1 he is cheating. You don't need proof. You just need an IQ over 11 and have passed 3rd grade math.

You might be able to lay a claim that he is using something that isn't "technically" illegal...YET. But there is NO CHANCE this guy is working on the same level as honest trainers and getting these results. NO CHANCE. Not even a .00001% chance. To debate it is a waste of time and one should be ashamed of themselves for even trying to formulate an argument that he is legit. He's not. Farthest from it in the entire galaxy. He dwarfs Lance Armstrong.

If people gave even an iota of a sh%t about this sport, Jamie Ness would be having an interview with Oprah instead of Armstrong. Ness would be banned, stripped from training titles, etc. However, this is horse racing, a place where cheaters get Eclipse Awards and accolades. Makes me want to vomit.

Exactly, couldnt have said it better myself. If the supertrainers of today are honest and getting those results with 'hard work' why then do the Whittinghams and Stephenses of yesteryear don't also have 35 to 40 pct win percentages? A great trainer is a great trainer regardless of decade or era, but nowadays, we have trainers who 'come out of nowhere' to dominate horse racing.

RRR is a great example.....he was a bad jockey, retired and basically overnight became a supertrainer with no training experience under his belt.

These guys make it look very easy and according to horse racing, its all legit.

[BIG49010]

His "stuff" doesn't seem to work in NY.

Dutrow's 10 year sentence I think has something to do with that, if Dutrow gets off then look out!

[rrpic6]

Gulfstream Race 8, #6 Houston Bull is running in a minute. 1st time after claimed from Ness. 1/2 right now?? Is that crazy?

RR

[Beachbabe]

Gulfstream Race 8, #6 Houston Bull is running in a minute. 1st time after claimed from Ness. 1/2 right now?? Is that crazy?

RR

Walder knows a "good thing" when he sees it. Anyway, Houston Bull got claimed again today by Christos Gatis

[lamboguy]

I do not feel the other trainers are all idiots - even though many have been doing it the majority of their life.

If I was a trainer and truly felt they were cheating against me, I would work to help get him caught and banned - they are staeling from 'my' purse pool.

These horse are running at tracks that 'test both blood and urine', don't they? If the horses are 'high' then they are on something which is not legal. This had to be either injected or feed or applied topically. When would they do this? In the paddock pre-race? Do these tracks have isolation barns for a couple hours before races that horses have to be in?

Whatever this mysterious substance is either has a very quick half live or metabolites that are normally found in serum and urine.

Got any ideas?
From what I have seen watching the races they win, the horses have 'more endurance', in that they can hold their speed longer than other horses, that are slowing down more at the finish.if the stuff doesn't slab, you can't test for it

[fmolf]

My take on it is you have 3 options bet with his horse ....bet against his horse or pass the race .....

[Not4Love]

My take on it is you have 3 options bet with his horse ....bet against his horse or pass the race .....

I would bet against or skip. The "well meant" horses are always overbet.