Pinnacle Sports Book Warning

[mikejlb]

Below is a series of msg's between Pinnacle and myself. I am posting this to warn people that thier system or employees make errors. I was fortunate that my loss was minimal. I won't be there for a big loss.

(email conversations)

I am aware of the ticket number. What confuses me is that the bet was listed on the bottom right with my other bets. I didn't notice that the ticket number wasn't listed with the bet until after the race was over.

The only conclusion that I can see is that your computer system, or the people managing the system are not reliable. In the future I will not have to check everything after I see my bet go through because there is no future for me with your site. I am just happy that the $30 payoff wasn't a big trifecta, pick 3, or something that would have really hurt. In any case I won't take that chance again.

--- Angela - Customer Service <csd@pinnaclesports.com> wrote:
> Dear Sir,
>
> We reviewed all your emails regarding your horse wager.
>
> When a wager is accepted by our system, a ticket number is given to that wager. If you received a communication error or failed communication error instead of the ticket number, this means that your wager was not processed.
>
> In the future, we suggest you that whenever you see a communication error to attempt to place your wager again. You may also go to the review account section after each section to ensure all your wagers were placed.
>
> If you have any questions, please email our 24 hour
> Customer Service
> Department at csd@pinnaclesports.com.
>
> Regards,
>
> Customer Service Department
> Pinnacle Sports
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mike jenis [mailto:mikejlb@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:06 PM
> To: csd@pinnaclesports.com
> Subject: RE:
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to verify that the bet I placed and saw >listed was an illusion and not an error on your part or your computer system. Fortunately it was a very small bet and payoff. I cannot afford to
> risk another more costly illusion or errors on your part though so please cancel my account.
>
> --- Will - Customer Service <csd@pinnaclesports.com>
> wrote:
> > Dear Pinnacle Sports Client,
> >
> > Please be advised that after performing several
> > tests, we have not
> > encountered any discrepancy whatsoever in our
> > wagering system.
> >
> > If you have questions, please email them to our 24
> > hour Customer Service
> > Department at csd@pinnaclesports.com.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Customer Service Department
> > Pinnacle Sports
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mike jenis [mailto:mikejlb@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:11 PM
> > To: csd@pinnaclesports.com
> > Subject: RE:
> >
> >
> > I did review the bets after each race. My exacta
> > bet was listed but I didn't notice that it had no number
> > until the race was over. Apparently your computer
> > system has some problems.
> >
> > --- Tana - Customer Service
> <csd@pinnaclesports.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Pinnacle Sports Client,
> > >
> > > We have reviewed your account and have found the
> > > Quinella wager under ticket
> > > number 19987276-1.
> > >
> > > However, we have not found the $2 exacta at
> Santa Anita, race number 8.
> > >
> > > Please be informed that once accepted, all wagers
> > > are given a ticket number.
> > >
> > > If, as you mention, instead of a ticket number you
> > > saw the message "failed
> > > communication", we would assume that the wager was
> > > not accepted.
> > >
> > > In the future we recommend you review your wagers at
> > > the end of each session
> > > to ensure all wagers were properly requested.
> You
> > > may do this by clicking
> > > on the gray "Check Wagers" box after making the
> > last
> > > wager of the session.
> > > All pending wagers will be displayed for your
> > > review.
> > >
> > > If you have questions, please direct them to our
> > 24
> > > hour Customer Service
> > > Department at csd@pinnaclesports.com
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Customer Service Department
> > > Pinnacle Sports
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mike jenis [mailto:mikejlb@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:25 PM
> > > To: csd@pinnaclesports.com
> > > Subject:
> > >
> > >
> > > I made 2 bets today in the 8th race at Santa
> > Anita,
> > > a
> > > $2 exacta 4 over 1 and 2 and a $10 quinella 3 &
> 4.
> > > The 4/2 exacta paid $30.60. I checked my
> account
> > > and
> > > on the bottom right side where bets are listed
> it
> > > had
> > > the exacta bet but I noticed instead of a number
> > it
> > > said failed communication. Does this mean that
> > the
> > > bet wasn't honored? If it does mean the bet
> > wasn't
> > > honored, why was it listed with my other bets?

[GameTheory]

Actually, if it listed "failed communication" next to your bet in the first place I don't see what the problem was. You should have resent the bet. You can gripe that you didn't know what "failed communication" meant, but now you know.

These kind of errors can and do happen with 100% of the online wagering services. No confirmation number = no bet. If they had confirmed the bet and then it didn't show up come payoff time then you'd have a problem. If you're expecting to find something different with one of the other services, then you may want to start making your bets at the track or an OTB....

[andthereoff]

I dont know how long you have been wagering online, but the normal process is to review your bets after they are placed...It seems that you did that, but if the bet doesnt have a ticket number then obviously there was a problem...

My question to you is this, After you placed the bet was your balance in your account deducted the proper amount of the whole bet or just the quinella bet..You the player are ultimatley responsible for your plays...

Based on the information listed above you cannot blame Pinnacle for this...You were in the wrong...No wager # means the bet didnt go through.

[melman]

Hi GT I agree with your post for the most part, however with many services they have a pop-up that tells you your bet was rejected. They all have ticket numbers as you write. I think that with the pop up it is much clearer that your bet was rejected for any of serveral reasons i.e. too late and after post time or server down. Plus you should be able to expect a color coded bet log that shows the status of your bet directly after it is submitted. With the color coded bet log it should be very easy to see the status of your bet seconds after the attempt to place it.

[Valuist]

I just recently opened an account w/Pinnacle to take advantage of the 7% rebate. All I can say is w/any offshore, always confirm your plays. Pinnacle has had a pretty good reputation in the past but it doesn't hurt to be a little leery of these places.

[GameTheory]

Melman --

I agree, it sounds like Pinnacle could make it a little clearer. (Their entire interface needs an upgrade from what I've seen.) But like I said, "Now he knows." No harm, no foul.

[Suff]

Having used and BASHED Pinnacles interface....I'll comment.

Pinnacle has a Unique feature I hadn't seen in the 5 other on-line betting services I have extensive experinece with.

A betting Que. It allows you to make mulitple wagers...and que them....then send them as a Group. Its sounds like you made a bet.. submitted it....then made an submitted another wager that Failed.

It looks to me like that are encourageing you to make your bets in ONE FELL SWOOP rather than bet them as you come to them.

I frequently do what you do...I make my bets...Then I review them and I frequently will add 1 or 2 as a HEDGE or even as a PRESS....

Pinnacles netwwork connection may be volitale and as such...It sounds like the Modus Operendi should be...

Bet Early, and check your bets.

And even further....Everyone that uses a Boutique betting service should factor in Technical issues as a Fact of life.

I feel your pain though.

Good luck...thanks for sharing your experience.

[mikejlb]

I always bet the last minute or two because I want minimum odds on my bets. As I said above, I did see the "commumincation failed" error but not until after the race. I always check my bets to verify they are what I wanted. When the bet was transfered over to my list I didn't notice or look for the ticket number because I thought it was accepted. I only looked to see the exactas were the right order, ect... then on to watch the race.

I am not bashing Pinnacle anymore than I am any of the other small sportbooks that do not use a reliable computer system or software. I don't have to worry about pinnacle's computer problems costing me anymore money because I won't take this risk with them again.

Some people feel the responsibility was mine and I won't agrue that point. I would feel bad not posting my experience and then reading later that one of you guys got burnt for a $1200 pick 4 or trifecta.

[GameTheory]

You need to understand that their computer system that you keep blaming was probably not at fault. It was just an internet transmission error that you could get at any site.

They are more noticeable when doing stuff like wagering because a secure encrypted connection is used and if there is a glitch while it is trying to autheticate you or the session gets cut off then the whole transaction is going to fail. This transactional system is for your protection and theirs -- either it will wholly succeed or wholly fail (just like any bank transaction). This way it is not possible to deduct money from one place before it is credited in another, etc.

Now maybe the glitch was caused by congestion on their server and they need to upgrade their capacity. But like I say, you can and will get these errors on EVERY service sometimes (BrisBet, YouBet, whatever) -- it doesn't mean their computers are broken or unreliable (the messages have to travel across the whole planet and innumerable other computers). If it told you that it was unable to connect when it was unable to connect, that is GOOD because you can then see you need to resend the bet...

[Figman]

This doesn't necessarily apply to Pinnacle....yet.
When dealing "off-shore" - BEWARE!

http://www.therx.com/nm/templates/article.asp?articleid=1536&zoneid=33

or

http://tinyurl.com/29qfw

[Zaf]

Figman,

Can't get the link to work.

ZAFONIC

[Figman]

The story is entitled "Is This The Big Stall?" by Stephen Nover from 02/02. The site is www.therx.com.

[Zaf]

Something must be wrong with my computer, I click the link you posted and just get a message:

Hello World !

Maybe I have a virus :eek:

ZAFONIC

[Zaf]

O.K. I'm there now D'OH


Thanks Figman.

ZAFONIC

[PaceAdvantage]

YouBet has the wagering que feature....

[SLAM DUNK(MW)]

I have used Pinnacle quite a bit since the rebate and unfortunately their system goes down a lot. A number of times I send in a wager, and it sort of freezes, so I just go into review account and see if it is listed as a pending wager. Haven't been playing the races much since NBA season started so hopefully they have gotten better over the last 3 months.Other times I get the communication error or a Race is closed rejection but you do not notice this unless you look down at your list of bets. I now make it a habit to place a bet then make sure the bet went through. I have never had a problem with a wager being accepted then showing later as rejected. Their software does leave a lot to be desired but 7% rebates make it well worth the trouble. The worst experience I had was when I had the thing in the wrong race and bet a horse who had little chance of winning(imo and sure enough he did not) I tried cancelling via phone, they said email and then I emailed and they refused to cancel the bet(prior to the race going off). Wasn't too pleased, so make sure you are in the right race when making your bets.

Overall, the benefit far outweighs the inconveniences(imo) but make sure they are not your only option.